Dawie (Freeflyd)'s 4Y Golf Carb Conversion

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:12 pm

I decided to start a separate thread for this Dawie's conversion.

Herewith the adapter plate I had cut to fit beneath the Golf base adapter. It is 20mm thick

With the adapter (rubber foot fitted on top of it.)

I had to make my own gasket as it is non standard size.

Andries noticed in Lindsay's thread that my rubber foot thingie could not fit between the mounting bolts that turn into the manifold while his could. I made this one with countersink holes and fitted caps screws to get the fitment right.

This morning when I looked at the manifold I figured out why.

See the original holes welded shut and new holes made where the Webber fitted. So this manifold is not standard any more. So if Dawie shipped an adapter bracket from PE it would not have worked in anycase.

Some gasket maker to seal it properly

The holes were not threaded deep enough for the 40mm cap screws to turn in all the way so I had to tap them deeper.

The adapter properly secured

The carb's foot fitted

The new carb secured fit its 6x100 caps screws

The adapter to reposition the Golf air intake adapter, otherwise the pipe faced the firewall

Everything in place

The Webber had a choke cable already, that fitted nicely onto the new carb, but the accelerator cable is too short(I sommer extended it with a piece of wire temporally, but I will take it in to have a decent cable made up next week.

As soon as Dawie gets his new Electronic Dizzy, I will rewire that and wire up the new carb's Electronic Idle valve properly as I sommer wired it with temporally wires for now. I also will need to have a bush turned to help fit the rubber from the air cleaner a but tighter onto the pipe of the air intake adapter as it is bit loose now. The I also need some sort of reduction nipple for the breather pipe going to the tappet cover as the hole sizes does not match up, but that I will sort next week. She started fairly easy and idle nicely at 700RPM, but I haven't driven her yet.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:43 pm

Nice job Bennie, looking forward to hear your comments after you have taken her for a spin. And of course, to hear Dawie's report on fuel consumption and performance.

-F_D

lindsay · Post by **lindsay** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:34 pm

very nice :D Cant wait to hear how the conversion has worked for you

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:29 pm

Hay Bennie looks good keen to find out how it works out

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:34 am

Bennie I cant see the photos, I also want to do the conversion!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:19 am

It seems like PhotoBucket is having problems. I guess it will come right again in a day or 2

lindsay · Post by **lindsay** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:21 pm

the suspense is killing me, how's it working for you?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:10 am

Had her on the Dyno yesterday. I will get the complete sheet later but what I can tell is that she made 71HP at 4500RPM.

I am not 100% happy with the E-Dizzy we installed because of the fact that if we tuned the timing to produce maximum horses at 3000 RPM the timing at idling speed reads about 18TDC, which suggest to me that Advance and Retard is not working 100% the way it should, so I will have to check that out, but I can't this weekend as me and the Missus is attending a course at church.

Other that that I can say the following:

The Air Fuel Ratios on this carb with the standard jetting works great, and I suspect that if you do not drive her with a heavy foot she will definitely give a very good consumption figure, but the venturi sizes and the position at which the second barrel opens is not optimal for this engine at our altitude.

Due to the small venturi sizes the throttle response is not as snappy as with a Standard Carb and much less then EFI. You can not feel the second barrel opening with your foot, but with a vacuum gauge we saw it opens at between 110-115km/h on the speedo which means that driving 120km/h on the speedo (which over read by 12km/h IIRC correctly, I will confirm on the dyno sheet) you already are driving on the second barrel which will not produce the best economy figures. So if you keep to 100-110 she will give excellent fuel economy, but faster you are going to pay for the performance in fuel bills, which is maar the same problem as with the standard carb, so here is where the EFI will definitely be better.

I took her to a place near my house with a big dug out channel where we play sometimes and had her drive up a few steep climbs and can say the carb does not appear to run out of fuel there, but there was not anything extreme there.

Overall feel I can say is much better that the 38 Webber she had on, she is much more refined, and I guess the fuel economy will be much better as I could see from the plugs and the smell of the exhaust when it heats up that there are quite a lot of carbon deposits in the system which meant the previous set-up was far from good.

I have not taken her onto the Highway yet to see how she feels but around here I could get her up to 120km/h fairly quickly and without having to really gun her. Will take her on a Highway run after I checked out the dizzy. Hopefully a little lubrication will sort the problem out.

Will I recommend changing a 38 Webber or whatever other badly modified set-up to a Golf carb? - Definitely !

Will I recommend changing a standard Hilux Carb rather then properly overhauling it and tunig it decently? - Not so sure about that one. If you want top end performance I do not think that the Golf carb will outperform the standard Hilux carb wrt fuel effeciancy at 120 km/h, but if you drive slowly at below 110km/h it may be little bit better.

Golf Carb vs EFI - The EFI will have a much better throttle response ( lag between you foot touching the accelerator and the engine doing something about that

) and will be more economical if you drive uneconomical (read - if you are in a hurry and need to drive 120 -130 km\h)

Overall I think the small venturis may have a little bit of an effect on the 120km/h+ performance. The problem is that the 1st barrel can produce about 44hp by itself and I guess the body shape of a SFA ( wind resistance + rolling resistance etc) need about 35-40hp to overcome that, so you have not got much power in reserve before opening the second barrel. A slight uphill or wind blowing will make a huge difference to the throttle position.

Lindsay, remember this was measured at Pretoria altitude so down at Sea Level the engine vacuum figures we measured will be different so your 2nd barrel may only open later and yours may perform different from what we have measured up here.

Last observation, right after Dawie's lux was finished Schalk dynoed a 22R Hilux with standard carb. This one could only produce 69HP

blom · Post by **blom** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:52 am

Bennie netjiese werk maar net gou ietsie

HOEKOM ????

al daai moeite vir 'n paar kilowatters

EFI EFI EFI

netjiese werk!!!!!!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:46 am

My Persoonlike keuse is ook EFI ammr ek dink Dawie se consern is meer dat hy gaan sukkel iemand te kry (bush mechanics) om sy EFI te fix diep in donker Afrika. En ek stem in 'n mate saam as jy nie self die basic goete aan die loop kan hou nie sal ek ook sÃª 'n carb is dalk beter van 'n reliability of fixability perspektief af as jy so baie tyd in die gramadoelas spandeer. Dawie maak 'n lewe van valskerm spring en fotos neem so hy kruip baie in snaakse onbegaanbare areas rond.

So ek dink sy keuse was eerstens gewees bosrepairs en dan effeciency. As sy prioriteite andersom was so hy sekerlik die EFI roete gegaan het. So dit gaan maar oor om die beste setup vir jou behoeftes te kry. EK dink as Dawie iewers in Botswana of so is gaan hy in elkgeval nie vinnig ry nie maar hy benodig meer kilometers per liter so hierdie setup is perfek vir hom. My vorige post was meet vir die common garden variety sna.. ek meen Hilux eienaar bedoel.

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:54 am

Bennie weet jy of iemand al die 32/36 Weber probeer het, die een website waar ek gaan krap het het "application chart' en ek sien hulle beveel die 32/36 aan vir die 22R

lindsay · Post by **lindsay** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:13 am

Benhurl

thanks for the feed back. I am quite siuprised about the opening of the 2nd barrel as it is something i never considered, i have 33inch tires and a 100mm lift so 120+ is something i havnt seen in a while anyway.

I have never done an indepth test as you have done and have based my success with the conversion purely on my vans performance and the impact it has had on my wallet

71 hp seems ok

as they are only rated on paper somewhere around 70-74 anyway as far as i remember. I find with mine that I never really need to "put foot" when driving under normal conditions and only rest my foot on the accelerator to achieve "top speed" of 120 or close to that.( remember us East Capers dont ride as fast as you Northern boys

)

MY biggest achievement was travelling to Lesotho through the Transkei wich is hill after hill and managed 10-10.5 without trying to save fuel in any way. I used to be lucky to get 5 on the open road.

The smootheness of the acceleration is a big plus for me as when doing some very steep uphills with my standard setup i found that my 2nd stage was opening at the very moment I change from 1st to 2nd in low range wich gave a little "hicup" and a loss of power when needed most. that gave me quite a scare on a few occasions while looking down a 200m drop and suddenly having no controle of the acceleration

I tried pirate carbs, standard carbs, you name it and always had that flat spot when doing the extreme. :evil: made me nuts.

You are the first guy to do the change up North that i know of, so its good to know that so far thing seem positive

pampoen · Post by **pampoen** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:43 pm

Another feather in the cap of old man volksie

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:29 pm

3RZ wrote:Bennie weet jy of iemand al die 32/36 Weber probeer het, die een website waar ek gaan krap het het "application chart' en ek sien hulle beveel die 32/36 aan vir die 22R

EK dink 'n 32/36 sal baie beter werk op 'n 4Y as 'n 38. Die 38 is vir veel groter engines. Was oom Albert (die oom met die eenarm) nou die dag daar toe jou van gedyno is. Nou kyk oom Albert is 'n groot voorstander van efficient carbs en will nie veel hoor van EFI nie, maar even hy sÃª die golf carb is veel beter as enige weber. Volgens hom hoor Webbers op ou Fords en Cevvs (die 123 manne se carbs) Sy beskrywing van 'n 38 op die 4Y is om met 'n emmer, water in 'n strooitjie te probeer ingooi

blom · Post by **blom** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:34 pm

ek het lang jare terug 'n 38 weber op 'n 4y gehad net 'n gesukkel

wens ek kan lewe maak van valskerem spring (113kg no good) en in afrika rondkruip ????

Lekka lekka

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:01 pm

Ja ek het uitgevis of Dawie my ook vir 'n Tandum sou kon vat (hy is 'n tandum instrukteur of so iets) maar hy het my net een kyk gegee en gelag. Hy sÃª met my 135kgs sal ons in groot moeilikheid wees as die main shute nie oopmaak nie en hy die emergency ene moet deploy. Ons sal te vinnig stop waneer ons onner kom

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:03 am

Thanks Bennie that has convinced me to just get my old nikki sorted out properly now if only there was a expert in P.E.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:25 am

I have a Nikki in 100% working condition. Its off my Hilux. I can post to you. Trying to rebuild a Nikki seldom works well.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:38 pm

Yip Riceburner,

My experience confirms this, althought the Nikki rebuild works OK, it's definitely not 100%. My Nikki seems to have developed a flat spot at about 1700 and I believe there are 2 possible causes for this:

1. Enrichment circuit not operating properly, or...
2. An issue with vacuum to weights crossover in dizzi, I have a suspicion my dizzi has been tampered with.

Either way EFI is the solution I am going to implement.

Bretton

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:03 am

I took it on the highway yesterday and it does not go half bad, I was actually impressed performance wise. The only thing I found was a bit of sluggishness/hesitant on the bottom end (I was in some stop go traffic on the Highway due to an accident). Last night I played around with the vacuum advance on the dizzy. The integrated Dizzy that Dawie bought has 2 vacuum connections, the one closest to the dizzy gets fed via manifold vacuum and the other one via throttle vacuum. This one advances the timing as you start opening the butterfly on the carb. This carb has 3 outlets next to each other that you can select from to use. I now moved it to the one on the left and used the cap that covered it to cover the middle on that was used before. Now this vacuum is applied a little quicker that before and she feels much better. I will drive her again today and see how she feels.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:15 am

Is this on the 18R engine?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:33 am

No Its not my bakkie it is FreeFlyd's 4Y

Post by **JohanM** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:02 am

I have seen the conversion in progress at Bennies place, and all I can say is that Bennie surely know his stuff!!! He is a perfectionist when doing things like this, and the photo's really can't give an impression of seeing it in real life.

It is really done very neat and looks awesome!

Bennie, you really make it seem so easy!!!

Looking forward to getting my fan EFI with your help.

:roll:

lindsay · Post by **lindsay** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:01 am

Benhur

I only have the pipe furthes from the dizzy connected. the inner one is blanked off. maybe i should get some vaccuum to that one to

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:07 pm

Dawie fetched his van this morning.

I took this final pics during the week.

Note the vacuum switch I mounted on a little bracket that was there alrady as if made secially for this puropse. This valve is switched on with the aircon pump to provide vacuum to the carburators idle up vacuum actuator to push up the idling when to compensate for the aircon pump's load

The 3 sifferent positions on the side of the carb to which can bu used to advance the timimng from throttle vacuum. I selecte the left on which reacts the quickest on throttle movement

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:36 pm

Bennie,

This engine wasn't perhaps dynatuned? Would have been interesting to see the chart. Do you feel it's a worthy mod up here on the Reef?

Dawie, now drive it and test it so we can see the fuel difference results!

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:03 pm

Yes, will post it later

freeflyd · Post by **freeflyd** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:52 pm

OK Guys, I've emptied the first tank of fuel, so can give some indication of the success of the conversion.

The costs included this:
Carb
Adapter Plates
Air Filter adapter
New petrol cable
Dyna Tune
Electronic Dizzy
Some labour and bits of spares.

I have to mention that I did not try to do this cheaply, I rather went for new parts, except for the electronic dizzy. I got a used one for R1 000. Toyota recons R6 500 for a new one.

So my total cost for the project was a shade under R4 000. Of which the carb was R1 200 and the dizzy was R1 000.

My initial feeling was that the van felt as if it did not accelerate as fast as it used to, but it seemed to keep the speed up better than before. Then I realised that it just feels so much smoother with the electronic dizzy, and you can really feel the second throat of the carb open up and deliver more power when needed. Where I usually had to gear down as far as 3rd on some uphills to maintain 80km/h, and now coast up in 4th at 95km/h. So there is a massive difference in power and ease of driving. Cold starts is a little hard, but the engine warms up pretty quick and then it just feels great!

I have been driving from Pretoria to Johannesburg and around Johannesburg for the past few days. So some hi way driving, but mostly stops and starts and traffic, and my fuel consumption improved from 5.2km/l to 7.6km/l under these conditions. This mean a saving of R65 per 100km in my fuel bill. That is at current fuel prices... So I have to drive a shade over 6000km's to make up the cost. That is the average distance of one trip for me and I do 4 a year....

So is it worth it? Well, for me it is! I realise the cost was almost enough to through an extra couple of thousand towards it and go for EFI, but for what I use my vehicle for, I need to be able to fix it with a bloudraad and tang in the middle of the Congo....

So for me it was a great success. Thanks Bennie for your great help!!!

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:20 pm

Hi Dawie,

Great report! Thanks for the interesting info :)

-F_D

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:04 pm

Hey Bennie have you considered putting this conversion into the article section of the forum

I think many guys may consider doing this so it would be great to have easy access to all the info

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:08 pm

O ja ek het vergeet hier is hy.

Dawie daai "stadiger Throttle respnce" is agv die kleiner venturies, maar dit spaar jou petrol verbruik. Dit behoort ook jou offroad driving te help ten opsigte van torgue, die kleiner keel jaag die lugspoed deur die carb aan wat die torque opjaag.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:49 pm

I added the article for you at http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/golf_carb for easy reference afterwards.
I use to drive Golfs for 8 years, so I do have some comments to make:
1. Dawie, even on a Golf this carb prefers that you use the choke when it is cold. On the Golf you would pull it about half way and then start. As you said, it heats up quickly.
2. Those long bolts on the top that secures the carb, on a golf they tend to loosen as result of vibration. Check them at every service but DO NOT over tighten them and preferable tighten them when the carb is cold. If you over tighten them you will distort the top part of the carb.
3. The smooth transition to the second stage. With my golfs that was normal. I did fiddle with the jets later and then got a better response from the second stage. Funny enough I made the second stage main jet smaller and it resulted in more power, that was on a 1800 golf. If I remember correctly first stage is 115 and second 135. I decreased first to 110 and second to 128 and actually got better performance and fuel consumption. These jet sizes will be totally different on the Hilux and you will only find the ideal jet size by trial and error.

On my first Golfs I used Webers until that Old Toppie at Lion Bridge (think Allen was his name) told me that a well tuned Golf Carb will outperform the Weber. I tried it and I got better performance and better fuel consumption with the Golf Carbs. It is a very simple carburettor to work on and it is very reliable.

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:39 am

So now there are options for the 4Y... I wonder when something will be discovered for the 22R

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:08 am

We are waiting for you to make a plan

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:28 am

I always want to laugh when somebody sais "if you want to save fuel dont drive fast"
You mean to tell me that there are some standard 22r motors out there that are able to go fast

I think if I had to go any slower I might as well get out and push

Truth is Im not interested in going fast but a bit more power for the uphills would be nice

I still wonder if the Golf Carb will work on the 22r

:?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:48 pm

Piet

Schalk also considered making the second stage's jets slightly smaller but mentioned that we would loose some Horse power in the 3000-3500rpm range in doing so. On a car it would not have made a significant difference and the fuel economy gains might have been significant.

In this case however, the aerodynamics on this vehicle does not make it viable to loose even only 3-4 HP as the power needed just to overcome the rolling/wind resistance at 100km/h + (in perfect conditions) is not to far behind the maximum available from this engine, so if we decreased the power even slightly it would have a disastrous effect on available power at cruising speeds.

Now if you bear in mind this van has a large roofrack and Dawie carries alot of stuff on there when doing trips even a slight headwind would may then cause him to struggle maintaining even 80km/h or so. Thus we decided to keep it as is as you would not save anything if you had to keep the hammer flat on the floor all the time. Its a very fine line here, if the bakkie was just a daily commuter it may be a different story and one might save by changing the jet slightly smaller and drive slowly (not passed 100-110km/h).

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:52 pm

Tristan

Cassie's 22R keeps up with any 4Y I have ever seen, I was actually amazed to see how well it goes compared to some 22R's I ve seen, so if you ask hime vicely maybe he can sell you his complete carb (standard to the factory specs with all the vacuum goodies and things intact) after we did his EFI conversion.

lindsay · Post by **lindsay** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:15 am

Freeflyd

glad to see you happy, now you understand when I say i will never go back to standard :D just wait till you hit that obscenley scary obstacle and your lux takes it on like it was made for it

Post by **JohanM** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:36 am

Bennie,

Well done on a very neat conversion on the Hilux... Must say I do envy the fuel consumption that its getting, but Im now hard at work looking to find all the spare cash to get mine converted to EFI soon.

leonbrink · Post by **leonbrink** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:40 am

Hi da

Net 'n ou vragie, enige iemand al gedink aan 'n Tazz se vergasser inplaas van die Golf sin?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:35 pm

Leon watse size venturies/een of twee keel?

leonbrink · Post by **leonbrink** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:45 pm

Twee kele. Ek kry nie inligting aangaande die venturies nie. Ek sal bietjie rondsoek en post as ek kry.

sakbal · Post by **sakbal** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:18 am

ek het die week met n ou gesels en hy het my n interesant ding vertel. in sy jong dae het hulle baie gespeel met v8 motors. een van hulle toetse was om te kyk na petrol verbruik. hulle het op n staduim n stukkie gaas (soos sif draad maar baie vein) onder die carb in gesit. dit breek die petrol wat na die head toe gaan glo nog meer op en dit maar jou ontbranding glo ook beter.
nou wonder ek as mens die probeer met die golf carb con. of die sal help.
is daar iemand van julle wat al van so iets gehoor het.

rze · Post by **rze** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:26 pm

Hi

I'm interested in doing the convertion. I've bought a new golf carb from Autozone, the footpiece and 4 long mounting bolts. What else do I need, besides the adaptor plate. I remember reading about this conversion a while ago, I think it was Lindsay who did it, and it seemed like that was all I needed. What is this 'dizzy' you guys are talking about? I'm reluctant to start without the right info. My fuel consumption on my 2.2 hilux dc (1991) is about 7.5 km/l, I am hoping to improve it to about 10 km/l, like Lindsay - and have more power up hills. Could someone throw me a life line. I'm based in Cape Town.

Thanks
Reinhardt

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:08 pm

Hi RZE,

From the knowledge I have gathered on this forum, the best fuel consumption most 4Y's give is around 8 to 9 km/ltr (open road @ 100 - 110Km/h). So your 7.5 is really not bad at all, especially if that is your average consumption!

Bretton

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:31 pm

rze wrote:Hi

I'm interested in doing the convertion. I've bought a new golf carb from Autozone, the footpiece and 4 long mounting bolts. What else do I need, besides the adaptor plate. I remember reading about this conversion a while ago, I think it was Lindsay who did it, and it seemed like that was all I needed. What is this 'dizzy' you guys are talking about? I'm reluctant to start without the right info. My fuel consumption on my 2.2 hilux dc (1991) is about 7.5 km/l, I am hoping to improve it to about 10 km/l, like Lindsay - and have more power up hills. Could someone throw me a life line. I'm based in Cape Town.

Thanks
Reinhardt

I hope this is "on open road" consumption, Urban should be around 5.5 in die kaap.

I've just gone EFi (as has Snipes), I'm getting Average 6.8 Urban and well over 11 on the "open road".

The EFi's main benefit is POWER, it's quite a different animal to a 4Y even with the best of Carbs.

I might be looking for a 2nd Victim, oops I mean Victor when I EFi George's in the New Year, interested?

You're welcome to PM me and see my BFi in the Flesh Bru; where are you situated (I'm in the Stad, Snipes is beyond the Curtain).

And Hey... :!: :!:

Welcome to the Forum Bru :!: :!:

Now go post some peekchaz and Introduce Yourself properly in "Meet the people" pleeeeeazzze

rze · Post by **rze** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:06 pm

Hi Dawie and Snipes.

That is my average consumption around town. I'll upload some pics soon. the only time I took it on the long road, I was following someone in a Jetta 5 TDI, and virtually had to floor it all the way to keep up, so I couldn't get a true reflection of the consumption.

Could one simply bolt on the golf carb with an adaptor plate without too many other tweaks? I've already bought the carb a while ago, just haven't mounted it yet.

Cheers
Reinhardt

rze · Post by **rze** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:11 pm

Hi Dadz Toy BFI

Like you I'm in the southern suburbs, in Southfield, I should come have a look at yours.

Regards
Reinhardt

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:18 pm

Hi Reinhardt,

It was stated that you need the original VW carb for the conversion, not an after-market one.

-F_D

rze · Post by **rze** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:45 am

Thanks Family_Bulldog. On another 4x4 site I came across this subject April 2007. This was posted their:

Just a bit of info on the VW Carb. I use to drive VW for the past 13 years.
All the 1800 and 1600 from about 1984 takes the same carburettor. It is called a "Kayen" Not sure about the spelling. Before I sold our jumbo golf last year I bought a brand new one from Midas for only R750.
On a Golf they are good and reliable for about ten years. On a golf one do not have the fuel starvation problem during severe cornering with the Kayen as you do when fitting a 36 Weber. If the Kayen is setup correctly it outperforms the 36 weber ad the fuel consumption is much better.

I know this carb wasn't used for the conversion, and the fact that this conversion was done to over 200 taxi's in PE, I didn't think all those would have been the original carbs. Anyway, I bought the carb then, but never took it furthur. The adaptor plate was a bit of a stumbling block for me.
Is the aftermarket carb alot different from the original? Excuse my ignorance.

Regards
Reinhardt

lindsay · Post by **lindsay** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:53 pm

Hi Reinhart

I couldnt tell you how much difference there is between original and after market, other than the original being more reliable due to the stricter manufacturing process of an original part. I was told when doing my conversion that the pirate carbs dont work to well and are not very reliable. why? i wouldnt know, but i will say that i had 2 pirate toyota carbs on my van before doing the conversion and had nothing but trouble( flat spots, early wear and total colapse within one year).

I had to sell my lux due to financial probs, but got a standard one as part payment ,it has 1.5 million km's on, uses 5l of oil to every 1000 k's and gets me 47 km's on R100 but I still have a lux :D I will be doing the conversion as soon as I have the money to put a new motor in.

rze · Post by **rze** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:11 pm

Hi Lindsay, thanks for the info. Good luck with the 'new' hilux. Maybe I'll keep mine standard as I get pretty good milage at the moment. I put in R200 on friday (virtually empty) and have done 169 km so far, I usually get 80 odd on R100, but by then I start getting nervous and then put in another R100. I've been using it every day for the last month or so and it is pretty consistent on the consumption.
Thanks
Reinhardt

krazy_kameleon · Post by **krazy_kameleon** » Tue May 04, 2010 3:34 pm

Hi all,

I have been working on CitiGolfs for the past 10 odd years and have installed PLENTY pirate carbs.

If you can get an original, then great. they are much better than pirate. there is no difference, other than jet size, between a 1300/1600/1800 so ANY CitiGolf carb will work. Just rejet for the 1800 spec

if you have the pirate carb, fine. As with most Chineese stuff, their qualty control is not up to scratch so you get some good ones and some bad ones.
This is what my experience has been with the aftermarket Golf carbs:

1.they don't have bushes where the VW one has so the operation is not as smooth and they dont last as long.
2.they don't stay shiny as long
3.They are prone to leaking fuel at the top of the carb, where the accel plunger rod comes out.
4.Jetting is questionable - there are no numbers on the jets inside

My advice:
1. you can live with this point if you have to.
2. so what
3. if it leaks take it back (keep your slip safe) I have sometimes taken back 3 carbs before I got one that didn't leak
4. Buy new jets and jet to 1800 specs (Carb City in Jhb)

Just another hint - pay the extra and buy the genuine VW base plate - the pirate ones split - a pain in the Ar#$ on a golf but potentialy disasterous if you suck in dirt offroad.

Hope this helps

Christoph · Post by **Christoph** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:26 pm

Hi Guys!

I have an original Golf 1800 carb I want to fit on my 4Y.Have been following this discussion very keenly!
..and just might need some help answering a few questions for you guys that have done this conversion already.

First of all, does anybody know why the golf carb needs a rubber base?..is it for the heat of the intake manifold?
...or vibrations?...

Secondly, what are the connections to the VW carb, vacum etc?...power?

Here are some pics....
I reckon no.1 gets vacuum from the distributor?...but there are a further two vacuum places on the other side of the
carb...no. 2 ( looks like it has something to do with the choke? ) and 3

There is an electrical connecting lug at (a) I am assuming this gets power??

Thanks!!

Christoph

IVY · Post by **IVY** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:58 pm

Hi Christof

Give me a call 083 306 3761

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:03 pm

Don't know the carb, but I'll have a stab at it. The electrical connection is the auto choke .... the upper vacuum take off is for the vac advance on the distributor and the lower vac take off might be for a brake booster.

Christoph · Post by **Christoph** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:17 pm

Conversion done!... Thank you to IVY and krazy_kameleon for all their advice.

The difference to the drivability of the vehicle is unbelievable! I pull so much better and smoother than before,
I can pull up the big hill on the N1 by William Nicol ( for the vaalies ) in 5th gear now at 100km/h!
There however seems to be very little difference in the fuel consumption, although I will have to do a proper tank to tank measurement still, as the gauge doesn't seem to accurate!

Just one point...I ordered the adapter plate from Capri spares in PE (as mentioned elsewhere here) and the guys were very friendly on the phone and promptly sent it to me...BUT, the holes weren't lining up perfectly so had to modify it a bit, which was frustrating.

Overall am very happy, and would recommend this to anyone...