Changing from visco to electrical fan

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:58 pm

Hi guys
I have a '97 2.4 dc 4x4,I want to change to an electrical radiator fan, any suggestions on a suitable replacement and temperature rating for the temperature switch, would one of the newer model's fan and bracket fit on my golden oldie?
Sorry if this is a repost, but I couldn't find anything by searching the topic

Post by **Family_Dog** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:11 pm

Hi Danie,

Welcome to the forum!

Is there any particular reason you want to swap out the viscous fan for an electric model? Somehow, I have more faith in a viscous fan than an electric one, especially the cheaper ones currently available, because I am suspicious of their continuous duty rating. The thermal switches often seem to be pretty much a hit & miss tyope of thing as well.

While it's true that a viscous fan draws its energy from the engine, thus robbing it of horse power, an electric fan grabs its energy from the battery which thus has to be charged again from the alternator, thereby again robbing the engine of power.

No doubt other people here will have more meaningful advice, so let's hear from them!

-F_D

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:35 pm

HalloFD
Thanks for the friendly and speedy reply. I need to improve the oomph and fuel consumption as cheaply and effectively as possible,people that "know" told me that this works,I am totally dumb when it comes to these things so I'm open for advise

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:38 am

Hi Danie

Fitting a electric fan will definitly give you more power. However as mentioned the temp switch could be a problem the tric is to fine a toyota that makes use of a electric fan that operates in the same heat range as the 4y and use the parts from that

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:41 am

Ah just spotted you dont have a 4y

well just use makes sure it is in the same heat range as the 2.4

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:45 am

Not sure what you see as cheap. I had my 2.4P branched with a freeflow exhaust. This has increase my power by between 3 an 5% (not sceintific, can jyst feel the difference). The consumption is also better but I cannot say by how much though.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:54 am

Guys

I have seen many arguments for or against converting to Electric fan, and my experience has also brought me to the point where I definattaly prefer electrical over mechanical fans.

Yes Eric is right that an Electicla fan does pull power indirectly from the engine via load on the battery/altenator, but because it is not switched on all the time it will only put a load on the engine when running where a mechanical fan draws power all the time even if the viscous coupling is running "free" it still eats power as the resistance on it is never zero (fan standing still while the engine is running.

From playing myself I found the best place to start is to get a thermo switch that switches on at about 5 degrees higher that where the thermostat opens otherwise it will influence the working of the thermostat negatively. But it is a hit and miss scenario as the cooling statistics of the system will dictate. You do not want the fan to switch on too quickly nor too late and the same goes for the switching off delay.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:46 pm

Thanks for all the replies,I'm sure out there is somebody that pulled it off successfully that can give us the specs for the right components to use,anybody know the ideal temperature range for my bakkie

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:32 pm

Howdy folks
I have gone and studied this forum(fuel efficiency) and have come to one conclusion, overhaul carb,change to an electrical fan and buy a tonneau cover.

I wanted to change to Wildcat branches and freeflow,but I already have some sort of S/S freeflow system.
I get an average of 6km/l in town and 7km/l open road(best ever 8.3km/l from Klerksdorp-Secunda-open bin with tailgate up:saw it on Mythbusters)

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:38 pm

P.S Altough a bit late
MERRY CRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:41 am

I think for strictly off-road applications a mechanical fan would be best, but for normal driving an electrical fan is best. Depends on your needs...

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:48 am

Thnx Ewald

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:50 am

Ewald

Here I want to differ. With proper override control an electric fan can be better off road as well. You can get an override switch that will allow you to keep it switched on if you realise the engine is becoming hot and you can have a circuit to switch the fan off altogether if you go into water to prevent possible blade damage or radiator damage. I know of people who lost there radiators due to a viscose not disengaging properly as they went into the water.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:28 am

Bennie, a million people can't be wrong...

hehe

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:15 am

But seriously...

You are right of course about the water and mud thing, but a viscous fan that is operating correctly shouldn't have this problem.

There are cars out there that has an oil cooler built into the radiator (Discovery). This is where the cooling really plays a big role, hence the need for a constant mechanical fan.

I hate those fans for on road use, and would also far prefer electrical, as most of my time is spent on the road.

Again depends on your needs.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:16 pm

Hi All,

I did it, converted from vicous to electic yesterday, I had one major advantage... the fans were installed before I bought the Lux.
It seems that a previous owner had a go at it, but made 2 major tech errors, and therefore gave up and re-installed the viscous fan.
What I did:

- Remove the old radiator thermo switch, drained the radiator of coolant. First error in previous installation found, the thermoswitch had a temp rating of 67deg, way to low, the fan probably never stopped running and this would have stuffed up thermostat operation.
- Removed the in/out pipes from the radiator
- Unbolted and removed the viscous cowling.
- Unbolted and removed the radiator, then took a look at the electric fans
- I wired up the fans and tested them, one was running perfect, the other was running but not generating much air movement, so I disconnected the wires and changed the polarity, air movement fixed but now air flow was going the wrong way.
- I took the fan assembly out for better inspection and found that the fan blades was installed the wrong way around. Unbolted the fan and re-installed it correctly, and perfect. The second fault fixed.
- Re-assembled the fans and re-installed the setup.
- Bought and installed a Echlin FS150(rated 87deg to 92deg) fan switch and installed it in the radiator. The thermostat has a full-open temp rating of 82deg.
- Then did the wiring, put an override switch in the vehicle, to force fans on, if needed. I haven't put a 'auto-off' switch in yet, that will come.
- Put a 20 amp inline fuse in, not sure what the correct rating should be, so I may lower it to 10amp to test. I'd rather have a fuse go than the fans or a fire hazard.
- Removed the viscous fan, 4 bolts, and returned the 4 bolts and tightened against pulley.
- Reinstalled the radiator, in/out pipes and filled with coolant, wired up the fan switch.
- I haven't reinstalled the viscous cowling, simply because I think it will hamper air flow from the electic fans, they cover a larger area of the radiator than the mechnical fan did.
- I checked, re-checked and checked again that everything was done right, especially any joints/solder points and wire routing. The override switch was very useful when checking the fans installation and operation.
- Then I started her up, to checked the operation of the thermo-switch, and waited, and waited and waited, eventually gave up and rather took the Lux on the road for a test.
- Perfect, thermo-switch kicked in, fans ran for about 30 seconds and the switched off.

The big question is did I gain power? Well to be completely honest I didn't notice much at first(engine cold). Though the engine does idle better.
After a while, when the engine had reached full operation temp I did feel a difference, say 5%. It seems the accelerate/rev a bit easier.
But it's not a marked difference.

I will be doing an EFI conversion shortly as well. Once all the mods are done, BroSpeed cam, electric fans, EFI, free-flow exhaust, the accumulative effect should make the difference I'm looking for! I hope:

5% BroSpeed cam and gas flow head
3% Free flow exhaust system
5% Electric fans
10 - 15% EFI conversion

Accumlative effect: 20% + sounds good.
The only problem is, after every performance mod do you get used to it, then you do another, and you feel another small gain. I think I'm going to drive a std. 4Y when I done, then I'll probably feel an enormous difference :)

Bretton

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 pm

Nice report. Congrats on your conversion.

The fuse rating you should use, should firstly protect the wiring circuit and should be determined by the cable mm2 area you used. The cable size would obviously be determined by the power ratings (current draw) of the fan motors.

Conventional Rated Â Copper Conductor Selection
Thermal Current Cable
Amps No Section mm
8 1 x 1
12 1 x 1,5
20 1 x 2,5
25 1 x 4
32 1 x 6
50 1 x 10
65 1 x 16
85 1 x 25

This is a guide only. Ambient temp, routing, length, etc all alter the value a bit.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:30 pm

Bretton

Am I making the correct assumption than your E-fans is in front of the radiator not behind it? If so you might consider moving it to the back. The general consensus is that pull fans work much better than push fans.

There were some discussions about it before here and on the community forum IIRC. Barto (Zantus) investigated this in more detail, he might be able to give you more info.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:54 pm

Hi Bennie,

The air is being pushed from the front through the radiator, so the fans are on the bumper side. I did about 40km of road driving today, pushed the car a bit and no problem, fan kicked in once or twice at traffic lights and then 20-30 seconds later switched off. Power wise it now feels like I gain about 10%. The air flow should be about the same whether pushed in or pulled through. The orientation(position of protection grid and air-flow direction) of these fans seems to indicate that they are installed correctly. If in future I have a cooling issue I will then re-install them on the engine side, pulling air through, which will be a simple procedure(I think... maybe... :)).

The wire thinkness is 4mm, up to the fans, where the fans own wires look like 1.5 or 2mm. So 20amp should be alright, or I'll go down to 15amp.

Bretton

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:08 pm

It is difficult to speculate on fuse sizes as it all has to do with current drawn and that can differ from one fan to another.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:49 pm

The fans should have a consist (non-variable) current draw as they operate at a single speed, so out with the multimeter I guess and measure the normal current load. Question is how far above normal is still acceptable? 2amp? I guess the fuses are in steps of 5amp so if the load is 13 amp then I should use a 15amp fuse. Is this logic alright, remember I'm a computer programmer, so math is very complicated for me, I leave this to the electrician...

Bretton

Post by **Family_Dog** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:28 am

Bretton,

The fans will have a consistent current draw once they are running, but upon Startup, they will draw considerably more current until up to speed. Measure the rated current flow and then add 50% for the fuse rating. Also, have a complete separate fuse for each fan, do not use one fuse to run both fans. That could lead to disaster if the fuse blows and both fans stand.

If you use a Blade Fuse Holder, make sure that the fuse is well protected from water creeping in. Some of those Blade Fuse Holders are not that waterproof.

Oh yes, make sure you carry a selection of spare fuses at all times with you.

-F_D

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:34 am

Hi Eric,

Again this is excellent advise, I didn't think of fusing the fans separately, this I will do asap...

Bretton

Post by **Family_Dog** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:45 am

snipes wrote:Hi Eric,

Again this is excellent advise, I didn't think of fusing the fans separately, this I will do asap...

Bretton

I was thinking more of the fact that if you have both fans start off at the same time, there is a fairly large surge running through the single fuse. If that blows, you then have no fans running! But, you could just as easily have two independent circuits to the fans, If you want to switch them on/off individually, use a normal Hella relay, otherwise your switch contacts are likely to burn out through arcing. Be very careful if you do decide to install two switches, one for each fan, that at least one switch is permanently on so that the fan can start when called upon to do so by the heat sensor switch. The only possible reason you might want to switch both fans off is when going through deep water, so that the fan blades do not agitate the water unnecessarily.

-F_D

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:25 pm

I can think of 2 reason to switch off the fans, in deep water crossing and also on a game-type drive when the fans switching on suddenly would disrupt a game viewing/birding watching, again this is not essential, as it would then be possible to forget to switch them back on, with serious consequences. Then an alarm of sorts would be needed, visual on the dash or audio, like an annoying beeper.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:36 pm

Thanx You guys are great!
Bretton if its not too much to ask, could you please add some fotos which I could use for reference(maybe even shamelessly copy-with your blessing of course)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:43 pm

Hi Bullet,

No problem, just give me till the weekend, I have to pull the engine out to replace to rear main seal, hooray!

Also I am going to do the seperate fuse thing as well.

Bretton

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:27 pm

Thanx Bretton
You make life so much easier for us dom oukies, sterkte met die enjin uithaal

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:49 pm

Danie

For what its worth :roll:

He's my input as an Electrician:

If you really must go Electric, consider the following:

1. Use MINIMUM 2,5mm wiring
2. Two seperate circuits are better than one
3. Rather aim high on fuse size, 20Amp
4. Consider that thermostats, relays and switches are 'designed to break' in this modern economy of ours and they DO :!:

Personally I'm leaving my 88's cooling system just as it was designed. My Eco Footprint may be fair to middling but I'd rather have peace of mind :!:

I drive sedately and am defo doing EFI in the near future.

On that basis I figure that my Lady is good for another 20 yrs.

The SFA is a Winning Package, anything else "just aint Lux Man :!: "

Cheers

Rich 8)

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:36 am

Dadz Toy wrote:Danie

For what its worth :roll:

He's my input as an Electrician:

If you really must go Electric, consider the following:

1. Use MINIMUM 2,5mm wiring
2. Two seperate circuits are better than one
3. Rather aim high on fuse size, 20Amp
4. Consider that thermostats, relays and switches are 'designed to break' in this modern economy of ours and they DO :!:

Personally I'm leaving my 88's cooling system just as it was designed. My Eco Footprint may be fair to middling but I'd rather have peace of mind :!:

I drive sedately and am defo doing EFI in the near future.

On that basis I figure that my Lady is good for another 20 yrs.

The SFA is a Winning Package, anything else "just aint Lux Man :!: "

Cheers

Rich 8)

Wise words rich

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:06 am

The SFA is a Winning Package, anything else "just aint Lux Man :!: "

I stand by that! :)

Oh, and I also agree 100% with the rest of our post too! Although I was thinking more in the line of 15A fuses per fan, I do not know what amperage they draw, 15A is just a thumb-sucking figure with which to begin.

-F_D

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:02 am

Last words from Rich The Electrician:

Most reliable way of switching and fusing would be to use a mini Circuit Breaker

(like in your domestic/commercial distribution board)

That gives you your fuse and switch in one

Mount it in your cab, then you can see if it drops out and negates the need carry spare fuses.

Recommend a 25amp (20amp will drop out too early) single pole or SP&N (Single Pole and Neutral) if you must.

The former will set you back R60 ish from an Electrical wholesaler.

Hope this helps

Rich 8)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:06 pm

Hi Bullet,

Sorry about the delay, the rear main seal replacement was a bit more time consuming than I anticipated. I am still busy completing that job as I have time. I am going to make one or two mods to the installation of the elec fans, as I'm not happy with the way they have been mounted. Will take the pics when I do so.

Bretton

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:28 pm

Rich

Do you mean that I can use a normal breaker that you use in your house's DB-board in a 12V DC circuit as well

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:42 am

YAR Bennie,

2.5kw Thermo Magnetic

Use 'mini rail' type mount not 'Din Rail' type, they are generally smaller dimensions.

Auto electrics is low low low 12v voltage but high amperage as opposed to Domestic electrics which is low (230v) voltage and lower amperage, is use bigger amperage breakers than you would fuses, ie. fridge/freezer with 30-35amp breaker where you used a 20-25amp fuse. A breaker can do the job of a switch, fuse and 2nd relay in one. Mounted where it's visible you can then see if it's tripped (would trip due to amperage surge or short circuit)

Used a 35amp breaker on my previous vehicles dual battery system to do the job of a switch, relay and fuse.

The biggest problem is that they drop out if you have a big surge ie. when initially turning on the load (your equipment).

I don't think they would be too reliable on a high beam spotlight circuit or something that is so frequently switched.

Hope this answers Ok

Cheers

Rich 8)

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:10 pm

Not a problem Bretton,thanks anyway!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:25 pm

Well I never and here I thought it only worked on AC circuits. Many years ago (me thinks it must have been 1991) I studied a subject called Elektro-Trade Theory at the Tech. We dealt with the internal workings of a switches and all I remember was that it had a coil inside and worked on AC only. Must have been an earth leakage :? . In those days I had other things on my mind and studies did not feature high in my priorities. I am actually amazed I ever passed

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:13 am

Hi guys,

Ok, so I did take the pics, then tried to post them on the forum, but alas no luck. I think it's got something to do with the 3G connection I use, so I placed the pics and comments on my website(hope that's ok?)...

http://oceanit.co.za/hilux_elec_fans/index.html

Bennie, I remember seeing you doing the heat-shrinking with a lighter, I came across a really cool gadget at our local spares shop, a small hand-held burner that has a butane lighter inside, there's a pic of it in between the photo's. Ready for use on my EFI job...

Regards,
Bretton

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:13 pm

Nice pics Bretton! A picture is worth a thousand words, especially on this forum.

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:14 pm

Thanxs again Bretton
Keep us posted on the the experiment

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:37 pm

Very nice article, Bretton! Keep em coming...

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:36 pm

Bretton and Guys

Can you please Update me on your Progress

If you've read the Tierkloof thread you'll know that I'm sat with a 'shot' Viscous fan due to broken engine mount

Therefore you may be able to convert me to your way of thinking :

Could you please give me details of the Electric Fan that you went with (make and model number)

Many thanks

Rich 8)

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:27 pm

Dadz Toy wrote: Personally I'm leaving my 88's cooling system just as it was designed.

Mmm, thought you might reconsider now

In 1970something when the 4Y was designed the norm was still to rather use mechanical rather then electical components, but with the progress in technology and improvement in reliability electric components in stead of mechanical ones are the way to go 8) 8)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:08 am

Hi guys,

Sorry I've been MIA, really busy with a PHP5 web application, so all my Hilux ambitions have had to take break. On the question of which fans, I wish I could tell you. They were in the hilux when I bought it. The installation was just terrible(probably why the previous owner returned to mechanical), I can though measure them and supply dimensions, if you would like. I think one of them may have had a tech sticker on, if so, I'll give u that data.

On the long range report, the fans are working great, I've been driving the bakkie quite a bit in the heat we have had in CT, with no problem.

Bretton

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:46 pm

Hi folks,

Just a little update on the electric fan conversion, today I had the first fuse blow, it was 15amp, so I'm going to put in a 20amp, to see what happens, a very unscientific approach I now. On the make and model of fan, one of them appears to be a universal radiator fan, as sold by Midas, I saw one at the Midas in Bellville and it looks the same.

On the downside, the electric fans are pretty noisy, when running. With a viscous fan there is not such a noticeable difference between on and off.

Bretton

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:37 am

Update, I have decided to re-install the viscous, simply because of the noise, and on the long term test I haven't really noticed much of a power increase or reduction in fuel consumption. I will keep the electric fans wired up, as a backup in case I have a viscous coupling go... a may in future have a fiddle again, but for now the irritation of the fans cycling on and off is not worth it. Maybe newer technology fans which are quieter would work better.

Bretton

Post by **Family_Dog** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:27 pm

Bretton, I think this is a wise move. Much as I love my Chinese engine, I don't want to rely on a Chionese-built electric fan at this stage. I have seen some and I am not impressed with their quality. Ditto for the thermal switches, which tend to burn contacts & arc.

I seem to recall you had better fans fitted, BMW perhaps, which is a far better option but my first choice will always be a viscuous fan. Less to go wrong, and when it does, the fan locks up and works anyway. It will never harm an engine. River crossings are another thing, but I don't believe in them either. Too many people have paid for expensive repairs as a result of deep water.

-F_D

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:45 pm

Yip F_D, you're right, it's better to have reliability as the end of the day. A proper implementation of elec fans would probably include some sort of 2 stage cooling, 1 fan runs at lower temp, with the 2nd one only kicking in later when needed. Now that I have put the vicous fan back, I can feel the loss of power, but not enough to change my mind (for now, next week I may change it again, who knows...). I don't think these fans are nice BMW ones, they are way too noisy.

Bretton

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:36 pm

Family_BullDog wrote: It will never harm an engine.
-F_D

But is known to damage the radiator which will then harm your engine

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:22 pm

Yes Boss, but if that happens, that might just about be the very least of his problems... :roll:

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm

If seen it more then once where the combination of a broken engine mounting and a viscous fan caused expensive damage. So I ma rather stick to using Electic fans as far as possible

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:17 pm

The guy at the dyno place, took one look at the fans and said 'That's not going to work!!!' He said he has done the conversion a few times and the BMW fan mounted on the engine side of the radiator is the only way to go.

So there we go, back to the drawing board with elec fans!

B

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:23 pm

Ek weet ook nou nie. Ek is seker maar konserwatief of banggat maar ek glo nog om 'n ding so standaard moontlik te hou. Gaan eerder vir betroubaarheid as daai ekstra performance.

Ek kyk vas in die idee van hoe sal ek nou 'n mod teen 'n minimum budget beter kan doen as waar Toyota honderde duisende rande in development in gestoot het om goed te toets vir die spesifieke doel?! m2cw

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:53 pm

Ja maar Cassie visco fans, plaaslyn telephone, XT computers ens is alles goed nagevorsde tegnologie maar dit kom alles uit die ark uit.

Bretton

I am sure I mentioned before that you have to have pull fans and not push fans for it to be effective

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:59 pm

Ja maar Cassie visco fans, plaaslyn telephone, XT computers ens is alles goed nagevorsde tegnologie maar dit kom alles uit die ark uit.

Maar ek het 'n yskas in die granny flat wat nou al ouer as ek is en werk nog net so goed soos die eerste dag. In teen deel maak hy kouer as die nuwe een wat ek in die huis het. So nuwer is nie altyd beter nie. En party nuwe goed word ontwerp vir 'n sekere leeftyd en dit is dit waar vroeer is goed ontwerp om verewig te hou.

(Bennie, ek stir net so bietjie)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:05 pm

Bennie I knew you were going to raise that issue again!

And yes I know the Bulls beat the Stormers, we have a useless backline!

Yes you are right, my fault was that I tried to fix some else's botched installation. I will rethink this and try again sometime, but first EFI!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:11 pm

CasKru wrote:
Ja maar Cassie visco fans, plaaslyn telephone, XT computers ens is alles goed nagevorsde tegnologie maar dit kom alles uit die ark uit.
Maar ek het 'n yskas in die granny flat wat nou al ouer as ek is en werk nog net so goed soos die eerste dag. In teen deel maak hy kouer as die nuwe een wat ek in die huis het. So nuwer is nie altyd beter nie. En party nuwe goed word ontwerp vir 'n sekere leeftyd en dit is dit waar vroeer is goed ontwerp om verewig te hou.

(Bennie, ek stir net so bietjie)

Hy maak miekien kouer, maar ek is seker hy gebruik seker dubbel die krag en is baie meer rasiger as die nuwe. Dit gaan alles hier oor effeciency

Bretton

As long as you admit that the bulls are the better team I will let you off the hook, this time only

I agree do the EFI first then you can look at optimising (fans) later.

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:14 pm

As long as you admit that the bulls are the better team I will let you off the hook, this time only

mmm miskien is Bennie tog reg