Solar System

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:29 pm

Long story short -

I have a 2nd battery system, using a cole hersey relay, and charging from the alternator.

this has prooven to be insufficient in the Kgalagadi .... (works fine in our moderate climate)

2,5 years later and the 2nd battery is acting up ..... less than half the capacity it had initially .... (this after weeks on a Benton 2 charger, actually a couple of sessions on the Benton)

SOLAR SYSTEM
with trips planned for the Orange river and to the North of Botswana it is time to sort this out.

My thoughts are :
105 Ah battery
80 to 100 W solar panel
Ctek 205 S charger

at around R 5 k I would like to make sure I get it RIGHT !!

your suggestions and advise will be greatly appreciated !

What battery ?

What solar panel ?

What charger ?

Do I keep the Benton wired for when in camp ?

Suppliers ?????

dankie. :)

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:37 pm

n klompie eposse uitegstuur, wag nou vir die manne om te antwoord ....

Intussen het ek vanoggend na VIER 4x4 verskaffers/instaleerders gery, julle ken mos die name hier in die Kaap. Sal ek dit maar so stel - interressant !!

no 1 - te veel kliente en te min verkoopsmense..... Toe ek uiteindelik vir hulp VRA ... skuus meneer die man wat die panele ken is net gou besig met ander kliente .... uiteindelik drie pryse (paneel. battery, Ctek) van die rekenaar afgelaai ..... batterye DUUR !!

no 2 - ook besig, maar is tog gou gehelp. Skuus meneer ons werkswinkel man wat daai vrae kan antwoord is besig met n klient .... Die winkel wil sommer R 3 900 vra vir die Ctek 250 S eenheid !! EN, dan dring hulle aan dat ek n ekstra regulator moet koop tussen die solar panel en die Ctek eenheid - "Ons panele kan nie direk gekoppel word nie .... Dis so vir ons gesê in ons opleiding ..." (Die Ctek diagram sê niks hiervan nie, en niemand anders kon hierop kommentaar lewer nie).

no 3 - okay, dit is meer n kamp plek. Maar hulle verkoop wel solar panele en regulators - maar net een reeks. Hulle doen dit nog net n paar weke, so die vriendelike verkoopsman, wat my al vantevore goeie diens gegee het was heel deurmekaar - toe gee ek maar vir hom n les, en wys hom hoe hul display werk en die basics .....

no 4 - TWEE verkoopsmanne, en dan mense agter in die kantore .... Vriendelik en hulpvaardig, maar mens wag maar vir diens. Hulle versprei nie panele nie, maar kon wel help met die Ctek eenheid en batterye - goeie prys op hul batterye (moet net weer SEKER maak dit is wel n deep cycle..)

kan maar net HOOP die verskaffers/verspreiders weet meer as die 4x4 installeerders !

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:35 pm

Chris,

This might be your cheapest option, and should be effective.

: SDC1130-web.jpg (37.21 KiB) Viewed 4319 times

We sell the SDC-1130, 30A DC-DC Charger but it does not have a Solar panel input. The SDC-1130 operates over an input voltage ranging from 10 to 16v and will provide a constant output voltage of between 13.8v - 14.6v, depending on a DIP switch setting that is user-selectable.

Take note that you will need a Solar Regulator between the SP and battery above as the SP's can go as high as 22v off-load.

-F_D

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:24 pm

Thank you Eric

It seems a LOT of people use this type of setup.

The only bit I wonder about - the DC-DC monitors the battery to determine the charge current .... how does the feed from the solar panels regulator impact on this ?

PS - I do already have a quality SP regulator, so this method IS tempting !

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:12 am

Chris,

I am quite happy to send a unit to you for test purposes. I have played with the SDC-1130 on the bench and am quite happy with it, but I would value real-life input from you.

-F_D

Froll · Post by **Froll** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:23 pm

Chris, what about the DC-DC charger with the built in solar panel charging from HCdP Electronics. Only seen them and not had anything to do with them but I think they look quite good. You can check them out on their web site. http://www.HCdPElectronics.co.za" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Johan Kriel · Post by **Johan Kriel** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:58 pm

Chris, 80 tot 100 watt is n goeie begin, maar ek reken mens moet dalk na 130watt plus kyk tenminste, om seker te maak jy hoef nie onodige draaie te ry as die battery te laag raak. Die grootte en aantal kan jy kies om te pas by jou setup. Koop dalk nou een of twee en las later by, of verdubbel jou battery kapasiteit nou eers as jy spasie het, dit sal ook help om langer te kan staan op n plek. Maar as jy ry moet dit lank genoeg wees om hulle te kan laai.

Ek sien daar is 100Ah lead crystal and 115Ah AGM wat dieselfe afmeting het as die 105 delco, maar seker heelwat duurder. Maar dis dalk n topic op sy eie. Koop jy nou n duur battery, of 2 x 105 wat langer hou of n goedkoper een en vervang gouer?

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:46 pm

Eric - I will keep that in mind. THANKS

Rodger - I am waiting for an email reply regarding the HCdP products. "Seems" I might need an additional regulartor between the solar panel and the HCdp unit - NOT SURE if this is correct !! Thing is this unit seems to be CLOSE to the Ctek in price. And I DO prefer the lower 20A charge rate of the Ctek. There is a huge debate between shorter charge time vs the possibly shorte battery life when using faster chargers ... I DONT know about this !! But I would probably play safe with a lower charge current ...

JOHAN - jip, clear as mud .... Solar panele is nou al redelik goedkoop, so n 130W is n opsie. NEE, wil nie vir twee batterye gaan nie, net te veel ekstra goed wat bykom. Dink tog n standaard deep cycle sal langer diens gee as dit n goeie laai stelsel het en gereeld gelaai word ...

sal more sien watter van die verskaffers antwoord hul eposse .... :)

probeer nou net onthou, wat is die naam van die solar verskaffer in Stellenbosch, agter die spoorlyn ? Laas was dit tussen hulle en GWStore in Wellington - maar ek is nou elke week in Stellenbosch ....

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:22 pm

okay, so here goes ....

Over the last 3 years I have gained some experience with dual battery systems - just enough to KNOW that there is a LOT more to this topic !!

I started off with:
- the fridge connected to the main battery, via a relay controlled by the ingnition. This works surprisingly well for WEEKEND trips. Pre-pack the fridge, get it DOWN to temp from main power before leaving on the trip. For the cost of a small relay this actually is a nice option for Friday night to Sunday morning.

Long weekends and hotter weather led to the next evolution:
- 105Ah 2nd battery, deep cycle, as this can supposedly deal better with deep discharge. Now I used thick cable to connect this via Cole Hersey relay to the alternator. Again the main starting point was pre-chilled, so the fridge actually did minimum work over a long weekend, relatively speaking. HIGH temperatures, combined with minimal driving showed a weak spot in this system over longer periods - I had to use the Benton and charge up the battery in a camp 1 or 2 times a week ... Minor irritation, but the system still worked. And for the cost of a battery, solenoid and Benton charger this still was not too expensive....

then I was confronted with a new reality - Kgalagadi and Northern Cape in the 45 degree summer, with night temperatures around 30 degrees !! Often we would do 40 to 80 km for a day, stopping every couple of kilometers, Stadsaal Grotte, Water holes, etc etc ...

The combination of minimal alternator charging and HOT weather put an immense load on the battery. Rustic camps with no power meant we soon ran the battery LOW !! And THIS is when I saw just how long it takes to charge a deep cycle that is fully discharged, well as low as the cut out on the NL would take it ....

We DID have a solar panel with us on this trip - a fancy and expensive fold up panel ... the short times spent in camp meant the solar panel was of little to no use !! Two full days at Gharaghab the panel was used, and it did work. So problem was not the size, but the fact that I was not using it while out driving - and "out driving" actually means being parked at some water hole with a camera in hand, so NOT enough driving for the alternator to charge the battery.

While in the midst of this low battery saga a friend camped next to us - 80W panel on his roof rack - for three weeks he not once used mains power for his fridge and he never ran out of power .

back at home the battery was never "the same" ..... repeated low volt cut outs took its toll. Add to this that fact that I did not re-charge the battery often enough at home and the deep cycle "lost capacity" - nice way of saying it can even power the fridge for a fraction of the time it used to ....

Due to these experiences the following is our requirements :
- 220V charging when mains is available (would be nice to to have to plan around this though..)
- fixed solar panel on the roof (a nice fold up panel means NOTHING inside your vehicle !! It must be out in the sun !! And HERE it all depends on "how" you have your holiday - enough driving and this not an issue, no driving and it is easy to leave out a panel, frequent short trips are the worst as the battery cant charge nor can you use the solar panel)
- I want a FULLY automatic system

Thus I bought an 80W solar panel. I DID ask around for a 120 to 130W panel .... ALL of the 4x4 fitment shops only stock 80to 85W panels, anything larger is ordered in. Most sources suggested that 80W is enough for what we use - 1 fridge and one LED light. Time will tell .....

I bought a new 105Ah deep cycle battery ... some calcium yada yada ....

I already had a solar regulator, but I decided to take the plunge and bought the Ctek 250 S Dual charger. While driving it senses the higher voltage and the alternator becomes the primary power source. the unit charges via the "DC-DC" method, so will be much better at boost charging during short drives. The 20A charge limit is a major point of discussion - I prefer this "lower" value as I dont want to cook the battery by over charging it, others say the new batteries can cope with the 30A charge rate of the HCdP units. The "dual charger" function means that when I switch off the engine the solar takes over immediately. The charger also has a thermal sensor to monitor the battery temperature and to adjust the charge rate to prevent damaging the battery.

Alternative options:
larger solar panels ... tempting, very tempting .... only time will tell if the 80W was big enough ....

Batteries ....High cycle, Deep Cycle, Capacity .... just too many options, and too many opinions .... I did not want to pay double the price for new technology .... SURE the next 2 or 3 years will see many more options here ....

Chargers/regulators - MANY people use a standard solar regulator only, with great success. I wanted the dual input type, Thus either the Cteck 250S or the HCdP dual charger.

While busy with alternatives - I should mention that HCdP has an intersting new "all in one" 4x4 power unit ... It can take THREE inputs - Mains, Alternator and Solar. It even has a built in inverter for 220V output, a Hella and a sigaret lighter output, as well as a battery charger ... NICE unit. I am convinced this is the future !! BUT, at present this is a low power option

Suppliers / installers ....
Current Automation replied quickest to emails. Good prices as well
HCdP was next to reply, but more comprehensive, and gave more options.
another supplier came back 5 days later: "Sorry for the late reply, I was busy with a project"
GW Store Thornton gave the best prices on the "package" in the Western Cape - still 10% more than the best prices in Joburg, before shipment ...
Of the 4x4 installers in the Western Cape Safari Centre came out best with the package price. But still 10% more expensive than the suppliers, and you DO need patience as they never seem to have enough staff in store ..... Should add their prices GOOD on that which they have in stock, special orders incur insane prices !

So what did I buy, and where ??

80W solar panel - Sunflare in Stellenbosch

Ctek 250 S dual charger - 1st Allignment Centre (Johan Tires)

105 Ah Calcium battery - 1st Allignment Centre (Johan Tires)

Johan is a registered trader for most items that you may need on your 4x4, and on special request will order it in.

Now for the fitment - the battery and charger is easy, it will fit in its normal positions in Elders.

The solar panel needs to go above the canopy - to protect it from branches I am thinking of a roof rack .... have not seen anything that I like ..... thinking of a custom unit, space for the panel and an extra section for some braai wood .... maybe some means of casting a shadow onto the canopy ..... options would be greatly appreciated.

PS - you will note that I have only mentioned the suppliers/installers that have made it to the top of the list, despite some minor criticism. The rest ... uhm ja .... when a leading national fitment centre tells me "their training" requires a regulator to be used between a solar panel and a Ctek charger ..... Many DONT answer questions, they just use the email as another opportunity to send out their months specials .....

PPS - I believe fluffy is still typing ....

PPPS - now to go TEST this in the busch. Feedback to be provided in due course.

PPPPS - read the first couple of paragraphs again - the "ideal solution" is a function of YOUR usage patterns !!!!!!!! there is no one size fits all !!!

to understand WHY I chose specific items you

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:35 am

Froll wrote:Chris, what about the DC-DC charger with the built in solar panel charging from HCdP Electronics. Only seen them and not had anything to do with them but I think they look quite good. You can check them out on their web site. http://www.HCdPElectronics.co.za" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have this unit in my truck, proved very capable on our last trip to Bots/Nam, owner very friendly and proffessional too. Also has an option to connect a solar panel too

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:31 am

Chris, I am at the same point at the moment.
The roofrack should be a versatile piece of kit and I am worried that fitting the solar panel up there to charge the battery will limit the use to just that.
With the dc to dc charger the aux battery will charge while driving, much better than just with the solenoid. The Ctek can deliver 20 amps, while the solar panel in the region of 6 amps if facing the sun properly.
During our cleanup weekend, I connected my panel while in camp, while Niel had his on the roofrack all the time. I dont have a dc to dc charger yet, and we drove around a lot.
In the end, I still had a full battery while Niel`s went below 50%.
Personally I think the solar panel must be easily accessible to put up facing the sun for optimal performance while in camp. The Ctek 250 dual will sort out the charging while driving.

Cheers

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:13 pm

Donkey - I was VERY impressed with HCdP's emails and feedback. NOT an easy choise between them and Ctek .... in the end I opted for the 20A charge rate ...

Andre - YES, where practical it is always better to point the panel towards the sun. But on the rook rack still is FAR better than packed away inside the vehicle - ESPECIALLY when are out of camp for most of the day, but LIMITED driving. but the "Roof mount.rack" must be such that I can remove the panel easily .... now looking for photos of assemblies to give me some ideas .... :)

Froll · Post by **Froll** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:45 pm

This is a very interesting topic and I will follow it closely so I can make the right choices when I get to doing mine. At the moment I also only have a relay in mine and it works for me at the moment, doing day trips and weekends.

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:13 pm

Some interesting reading
http://www.caravanworld.com.au/latest-r ... 76997.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:11 am

Andre, I found the reason for the problem - the connector on the positive wire did not make proper contact and thus did not charge. I still agree that a panel (as you indicated) need to be properly managed. The flat on the roof does work but is not as effective as "following the sun" as you did.

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:13 am

Glad you found the problem.
Ek het n spreadsheet gemaak om die kragbalans te probeer bereken.
Ek sal dit waardeer indien die slimkoppe daar buite bietjie sal kyk en skaaf daaraan.

Jy vul die inligting in die blou blokkies in en alle soorte interresante inligting word bereken.
Hoop ek kry hom opgelaai.

Groete

Wayne · Post by **Wayne** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:35 am

Last November my dual battery was stolen so I decided to go the solar panel route, what a pleasure.
I got a 130W panel with a 10 Amp battery charger / controller for R2000 from MLT Drives in cape town.

I have a 50 litre National Luna Fridge and I run led lights at night.
Within an hour of sunrise the battery is at 13.5V even on an overcast day.
When Im camping I have the panel mounted flat on the canopy of the bakkie.

Johan Kriel · Post by **Johan Kriel** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:25 pm

Tonto ek sal later bietjie na jou berkeninge kyk. Ek het soortgelyke spreadsheet op gestel wat ek al jare gebruik.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:11 pm

Andre baie interressante spreadsheet !! :)

Ek het so bietjie gespeel ... maak die solar se volts so 14 tot 15 V, dan daal die eintlike laai stroom.

en in die SOMER in Kgalagadi hardloop die yskas LANG ure !! Skielik MOET mens n paar uur per dag ry, of die battery kan net n paar dae hou. Maar dan het mens ook by die 12 uur lank son, so daar is meer solar beskikbaar ....

sal maar moet gaan kamp daar in die somer .... net om seker te maak of als werk ... :) :)

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:39 pm

Johan het n paar inputs gegee, en ek het die spreadsheet bietjie aangepas.
blykbaar gooi jy 10 % weg van die krag wat deur die paneel en die alt opgewek word.
Ek stem ook saam dat die alternator dalk meer laai as die 10 amps, maar met die gewone solenoid stelsel wonder ek hieroor.
Julle kan self met die syfers in die spreadsheet speel om julle behoeftes te pas, maar ek sal graag terugvoer wil he oor julle praktiese ondervinding.
Wat belangrik is, is om nie die battery te ver te ontlaai nie. Behalwe vir die lead christal tipe, verlaag dit dit leeftyd van die battery drasties.
Die idee is dus om die battery genoeg te laai om hom vol te hou vir maksimum leeftyd.
Meer batterye maak vir my ook nie sin nie aangesien n 105 ah jou yskas vir n dag aan die gang gaan hou, 2 van hulle dus net 2 dae.

Dankie Johan, deel gerus meer van jou ondervinding met ons.
Groete

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:16 pm

en as jy iets soos die Ctek dc-dc charger gebruik kan jy werk op n laai stroom van 20A, wat die laai (ry) tyd DRASTIES verminder.

maar ja, praat is een ding. Die stelsel moet GETOETS word !!

27 April tot 1Mei is dit die Oranje rivier trippie .... sal dophou hoe die daaglikse ryery die battery laai. Daar sal ook n "staan" dag wees, wat die solar so klein bietjie sal toets.

Dan lekker BAIE ry, Vioolsdrif , Windhoek, Caprivi, Chobe ..... teen die tyd behoort daai dc-dc die battery VOL te hê.

Dan n paar rustige dae met mider ry.

DAN 5 dae van GEEN ry. DIT sal daai solar lekker toets. Al behoort die temperature dan al baie matiger te wees.

en dan al die pad terug Kaap toe.

Behoort behoorlik verslag te kan doen oor die stelsel teen die tyd wat ons terug is. :)

Johan Kriel · Post by **Johan Kriel** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:23 pm

Tonto, thanks. Dis reg battery is nie 100% efektief nie, nie alles wat jy insit kry jy terug nie, so jy moet toelaat dat jy omtrent 10% verloor.
Solar panele gee 2 waardes vir stroom (amps), agter op, n open circuit en n close circuit. Die close circuit moet gebruik word maw dis wanneer dit onder vrag is en dit is rofweg die Watts wat op die paneel is gedeel deur die close circuit volts. So n 95 Watt paneel sal ongeveer (95/17) 5.5Amps gee, effektief vir ongeveer 6 ure gemiddeld, gemonteer teen n hoek van 12grade, as ek reg het. Dus kan jy langer as 6 effektiewe ure krag kry of selfs koter, afhangend of jy die son volg en of dit plat gemonteer is.

Maar daar is eintlik net een goue reel . Hou die battery vol, dan hou hy.

Hoe doen jy dit: Sit battery monitors in dat jy kan sien hoe vol die batterye is, dan weet jy of hulle happy is of nie.
En sit die grootste en duurste

battery in wat jy kan inpas, en ry elke dag tenmiste 2 of 3 ure, of kry sonpanele groot genoeg om dit wat jy uittrek terug te sit, soos gewys is in die spread sheet. Enige paneel wat jy gebruik sal jou ry tyd per dag nodig verminder afhangend van die grootte van die paneel. En gebruik die regte laaier vir die battery wat jy het. Calsuim, lead crystel en AGM moet jy n dc - dc (14.4V) laaier gebruik om hulle behoorlik te laai.

Froll · Post by **Froll** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:30 pm

ChrisF wrote:en as jy iets soos die Ctek dc-dc charger gebruik kan jy werk op n laai stroom van 20A, wat die laai (ry) tyd DRASTIES verminder.

maar ja, praat is een ding. Die stelsel moet GETOETS word !!

27 April tot 1Mei is dit die Oranje rivier trippie .... sal dophou hoe die daaglikse ryery die battery laai. Daar sal ook n "staan" dag wees, wat die solar so klein bietjie sal toets.

Dan lekker BAIE ry, Vioolsdrif, Windhoek, Caprivi, Chobe ..... teen die tyd behoort daai dc-dc die battery VOL te hê.

Dan n paar rustige dae met mider ry.

DAN 5 dae van GEEN ry. DIT sal daai solar lekker toets. Al behoort die temperature dan al baie matiger te wees.

en dan al die pad terug Kaap toe.

Behoort behoorlik verslag te kan doen oor die stelsel teen die tyd wat ons terug is. :)

Chris, dalk kan ons ontmeot as jy deur Vioolsdrift kom. Ek is so 2 km van die grens pos af.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:33 pm

moet dit onthou.

SA of Namibie kant ??

Froll · Post by **Froll** » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:50 pm

SA se kant. As ek op my stoep staan kan ek die grens pos sien. Jy kan my net bel as jy daar is, dan sal ek gou soentoe ry.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:05 am

Roger dan maak ons so. :)

GI Jane · Post by **GI Jane** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:37 am

Chris thanks for all the info about the solar panel system, hope I have understood it properly,in spite of it being written clearly. Have a 130w solar panel which I have barely used, and have had some problems with my second battery on long trips with it not charging sufficiently in spite of drive long distances daily. Am going to have my solar panel mounted on my canopy roof for an up and coming trip to Orange river and Kalahari and see if I can manage 2 weeks without any mains connections. Andre will see you at the breakfast today and hopefully we can chat about the setup... Must say I already have a headache just reading through all this electrical stuff, not easily digestable for a blonde female....

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:08 am

Val do you have a dc-dc charger ??

Family-Dog is looking for somebody to test a unit on just such a trip as you are doing !! :) :)

Johan Kriel · Post by **Johan Kriel** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:30 am

GI Jane wrote: and have had some problems with my second battery on long trips with it not charging sufficiently in spite of drive long distances daily.
....and see if I can manage 2 weeks without any mains connections.

Something wrong with your setup, let someone check it. Else put the details here, we might give some direction.

With 130watt you can aim at 130watt / 17Volt x 6 hours (summer) x 90% is about 34.5 Amp x hours that you put back into the battery.

50l fridge and a few led lights might use 1.8 amps/hour x 22 hour standing time is 39 Amps x hours (Ah). Thus about 4 to 5 Ah short per day, or 50 available Ah / 5 is 10 days standing without alternator charge. 80l fridge usage would be about 46Ah.

So you would definitely survive with a few hours driving everyday.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:34 pm

Val so paar vinnige vrae:

- hoe word jou tweede battery gekoppel ? (net n solenoid?)
- hoe oud is die battery ?

As jy net die solenoid koppeling gebruik, kontak gerus Family-Dog om uit te vind oor die DC-DC charger - maak n GROOT verskil in laai tyd wanneer jy ry.

As die battery al n paar jaar oud is, probeer die volgende : Laai die battery vir n paar dae met n "clever charger", koppel dan jou yskas en kyk hoe lank vat dit voor die battery pap is. n Goeie 105Ah battery sal daai yskas vir 2 tot 3 dae aan die gang hou, sonder enige laai - maar dan is hy LEEG. As die yskas hom in n dag leeg maak is die battery "poegaai" .....

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:52 am

Here follows the 3rd edit after some input from Johan.
I added 15% to the equipment consumption to compensate for the chemical and other losses during the charging, discharging sequence.
You can edit your solar panel wattage and charging current, as well as driving time and solar time.

I hope this gives a little more insight into the issue.
Please help me to edit by sharing knowledge and experience.

Regards
Andre

Post by **george** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:09 am

Tonto wrote:Here follows the 3rd edit after some input from Johan.
I added 15% to the equipment consumption to compensate for the chemical and other losses during the charging, discharging sequence.
You can edit your solar panel wattage and charging current, as well as driving time and solar time.

I hope this gives a little more insight into the issue.
Please help me to edit by sharing knowledge and experience.

Regards
Andre

Baie nice

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:27 am

Andre nou maak jy my lus vir SPEEL :) :)

Tyd om n behoorlike "test bench" te bou en die paneel/Ctek te TOETS. :)

hoe seg hulle ? Watch this space !

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:43 am

ChrisF wrote:Andre nou maak jy my lus vir SPEEL :) :)

Tyd om n behoorlike "test bench" te bou en die paneel/Ctek te TOETS. :)

hoe seg hulle ? Watch this space !

Praat net, ek sal graag wil help met die toetse.

Post by **george** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:55 am

As julle toetse doen hier in die kaap sit 'n "heatar" of iets in die kamer.My stelsel het lekker hier in die Kaap gewerk maar hoe nader na die ewenaar dan begin daai Engel "non-stop" te hardloop

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:52 am

Die idee met die toets is om te kyk hoe/of die paneel laai in die skaduwee/vroeg oggend son/ middag son ens ....

so ek wil die "solar laai proses" toets

Sal kyk hoeveel watt die paneel opwek en hoeveel die Ctek lewer aan die battery.

beplan om n inverter en 40 of 60W gloei lamp te gebruik as n "las" - om te keer dat die battery vol laai - anders gaan die Ctek oorneem en die laai stroom afbring .....

eintlik het ek n ou battery nodig (wil nie my buwe een doelbewus laag trek nie) .... maar dit kan ek kry .....

Teen die einde van die toets wil ek WEET wat n 160W solar paneel kan lewer aan die battery onder watter toestande .... as ons gelukkig is kan ek dit selfs in bewolkte weer toets.

glad nie moontlik om die hoë temperature by die huis te simileer nie ....

Jare terug het ek n 12V yskas gebou vir n B-tech projek. Toe het ek n vol laboratorium toets gedoen op die stelsel .... kon net nie die temperature bo 30 grade kry by die huis nie ..... maar die resultate was tog baie interessant.

die toets gaan NIE die las/yskas toets nie. Ek aanvaar dat die yskas tot 20 uur per dag sal loop in die warm klimaat. Dus 20h x 2,5 A is wat ek moet kry uit die solar NA die Ctek, as ek niks gaan ry nie (dis nou vir my NL eenheid) .....

met beter data oor die laai proses kan ons daai spreadsheet verder "tune" ... :)

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:43 pm

Klink lekker Chris,
Ek dink as ek my 40l Engel agter in my canopy sit met die deure toe behoort die temp lekker hoog te styg.
Ek is volgende week terug. Ek sal graag wil betrokke wees met die toets.

Johan Kriel · Post by **Johan Kriel** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:09 pm

ChrisF wrote:Ek aanvaar dat die yskas tot 20 uur per dag sal loop in die warm klimaat. Dus 20h x 2,5 A is wat ek moet kry uit die solar NA die Ctek, as ek niks gaan ry nie (dis nou vir my NL eenheid) .....

Die Amerikaners het die kurwes opgestel vir die Engel yskaste. http://www.engel-usa.com/images/stories ... 0curve.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Sien NL het ook begin om so iets te gee.

Van toets gepraat, hier is 'Battery Stelsel 101'. Julle kan 'Battery Stesel 201' bywerk met die nodige detail, om meer oor 'solar controlers' by te sit byvoorbeeld, en ook bietjie skaaf aan die syfers waar nodig.

Andre se spreadsheet doen die berekeninge vir jou:

If you run a fridge and other apparatus from the start battery it might drain the start battery over night and the next morning the vehicle may not start. Thus you need a separate battery system for the fridge, light etc.

Daily Consumption:
Calculate the consumption of whatever you use by multiply the average amps drawn over a period times the hours it will be used. For example a 40l fridge might use 36 Amp-hours (Ah) per day (1.5 Amps x 24 hours) and an 80l fridge may use 48Ah, lights and chargers might use another 5 Ah per day.

Batteries:
A start battery (high cycle) has about 20 - 30% usable Ah, a deep cycle 50%, an AGM battery 80%, and a lead crystal 100%. But all lead batteries will last much longer if drain shallower ten the above figures, and must be re-charged to its full level as soon as possible.
If you draw more than that percentage you drain the battery beyond it usable capacity, or if leave it uncharged, its life will be shortened and will fail premature.
Thus to choose the size of the battery you need to calculate the capacity by divide the consumption per day (period) by the usable % Ah of the battery. For example with 48Ah consumption a 48Ah/50x100 = 96Ah size battery minimum is required. But the larger the battery you can fit the longer it will last.
Batteries are also not 100% effective. Only about 90% of the Ah that were charged is available for extraction later.

Chargers:
Deep cycle batteries charge best with a direct current to direct current (dc to dc) charger and a start (high cycle) with an alternator which is the NL/Tmax solenoid system.
There are various models on the market but the popular dc to dc charges have outputs of 10, 20, 30 or 80 amps (A).
Deep cycle battery should not be charged to more or less 25% (some even to 35%) of its capacity, thus for a 96Ah battery you need a maximum size charger of 24amps. (96 x 25/100 amps.
High cycle batteries do not have that limits, thus they will charge much quicker from an alternator, but will not last as long if they are drained frequently beyond the 70% depth of discharge (dod) limit.
As batteries will not receive the full amps of charger when becoming fully charged it is also advisable to reduce the charging rate of any charger to 90% of the rated amps.
Thus to recharge 48Ah consumption per day with a 20 Amp charger will take more than about 2.96 hour’s drive (48Ah/20h x 100/90 x 100/90). {Remember to allow more or less 10% loss in a battery, that’s not recoverable, and that the chargers will not charge batteries with the full capacity till 100% level, thus allow for inefficiency factor of 0.81 (90/100x90/100)}

Solar panels.
Various makes and sizes are available, but the 12 Volt type must be used. Their close circuit output volts are usually between 17 to 21 Volts. And these panels need to be connected through a controller to the battery. The controller must have an amp rating more than the close circuit output of the solar panel. Some of the dc to dc chargers have the option to connect a solar also to it.
To calculate the total amp hours output per solar unit you multiply the close circuit amps with about 6 hours effective sun sign hours per day. The amps-hours that a solar panel put out per day is more or less equal to 6 hours full sun.

(Some controlers have the ability to increase the output amps of a solar with 10 to 15%, which you can incorporate in the calculation, but not done here, by dividing the Watts by 15V and not 17V)

Again decrease the Ah with 10% to allow for the loss in the battery. If you track the sun you can increase the output hours by 20% and if you mount it flat you need to decrease the hours by 20% more or less.
One or more panels can be connected in parallel thus the amps per unit are multiplied with the number of units to get the total output of more panels.
A 95 watt panel will provide about 5.5 amps x 6 hour’s sun x 90/100 X 90/100= 26.7 Ah, and 2 panels double that.
Thus on the 48 Ah consumption per day and 1 x95 watt panels, you are still 21.3 Ah short (48-26.7) , which is about 1.3 hour’s drive with a 20 Amp dc to dc charger (21.3/20x100/90X100/90)

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:14 pm

okay, die "test rig" is amper klaar. :)

die moet ek eers so 30 tot 40Ah uit die vol battery trek - die Ctek sien n vol battery en gebruik nie nou al die energie wat die solar kan verskaf nie ....

en dan kan ek Saterdag n paar toetse doen :) :)

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:20 pm

en so beplan ons mos maar dinge, en dan glimlag die Vader maar net vir ons planne ... :)

Gisteraand nog die laaste goed REG gekry. Sou vanoggend die paneel op die dak sit, en dan gereelde lesings neem ..... yada yada .....

en so word ek toe wakker met die klank van REEN op die dak .....

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:01 pm

hardly posted this and the clouds open. Nice bright sun on the panel. As the clouds drift past the current is playing between 2 and 4 A. :) :)