Help needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:43 pm

Ek het die naweek deur te diep water gery en water in my enjin deur die air intake gekry.
Die bakkie wil nou niks weet nie.
Ek het toe al die plugs uitgedraai en die motor ( 4y ) met n spanner op die crank gedraai, mar hy wou nie heeltemal draai nie,
net so +- 180 op die spanner dan steek hy vas.
Terwyl ek hom gedraai het, het daar water by die plugholes uitgekom mar hy het nogsteeds nie verder as 180grade gedraai nie.
Toe het ek die tappetcover afgehaal om te kyk of hy nie n valve gedrop het nie mar dit lyk of al die valves daar is.

Wat dink julle kan fout wees en wat stel julle voor moet ek doen?
Ek het die naweek die bakkie nodig...

Dankie
Evert

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:12 pm

As jy all jou vonkproppe uit gehaal het en die enjin draai nie met a spanner nie het jy n conrod gebuig!

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:23 pm

Ok.
Hoeveel dink jy sal dit kos vir n nuwe een.
Kan mens net een nuwe een koop of moet mens almal vervang?

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:40 pm

Tyd vir enjin oorbou. :?

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:47 am

Unfortunately for you, Daryl is right. Sounds like you have bent or broken something. It could also happen (but not common) that the timing chain jumped a tooth or three and the timing is out.

As you have to strip the motor anyway, you could start by removing the head. Check your pushrods, valves and then check whether the crank turns or not with the head removed.

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:45 am

Dankie manne.
Wat dink julle is die kostes verbonde om die motor oor te bou?
Hy was al een keer oorgebou deur die vorige eienaar, mar dit maak seker nie saak om dit weer te doen nie?
Of ek kan altyd n korean 4y koop?
Wat stel julle voor?

Evert

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:47 am

If there was water in the engine you have more than likely damadged tour main and big end bearings. Bearings get water marks on them quickly and start disintergrating.

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:17 am

OK
But if I have to rebuild the whole enjin what do you think the costs will be?
Or do you think it better to just buy a new korean 4y?

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:17 am

Evert,

You can rebuild the current motor, either yourself if you know how to, or have it done or the third option is to buy a korean engine and fit it. I would however suggest that if you can, rebuilt the old one.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:24 am

Kepp the Jap engine and rebuild it. Piece of mind.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:54 am

not having to rebuild a motor in quite a few years, i cant really give an accurate costing but I would imagine that a decent rebuild of the block and head would cost you in the region of 10K.

Yes it is more than a new import motor :!:

You will get varying answers as to whether a rebuild is better than a chinese motor. IMO the chinese motor is good and makes it easy to just swop and you're on the road again. Leaving you with a motor that can be overhauled at your lesuire.

On the other hand, having the motor rebuilt by a reputable engineering works would mean that there is no worry about your original Toyota motor.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:30 am

The only way a rebuilt original jap engine will beat a good quality Korean engine, is if you use original parts for the vital components(rings, head gasket, intake/exhaust gasket, hydraulic lifters, seals(rear main especially)), timing chain. Most people skimp on the parts because the toy originals are just too expensive, and use cheaper pirate parts.

On the previous occasion when I rebuilt my engine I used pirate hydraulic lifters, thinking they looked exactly the same as the Toy ones. When I rebuilt the engine this time I stripped and cleaned all the lifter, including an old set of original Toy ones I had(from Dadz Toy), and then I realised the originals are substantially more complex and better built than the pirate ones, I had the original Toy ones refaced and now I'm using them.

So if you are going to build the engine from pirate parts, then a Korean 4Y may not be such a bad thing!!

Bretton

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:41 am

I love my knock-off 4Y

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:15 pm

In your first post you said you need the vehicle urgently, in that case a decent Korean/Chinese 4Y is the only option. Just do not buy it from any old place but rather from someone with a good reputation like commercial auto.

The ones I have seen installed in guy's vans so far is 100% as good as/maybe better then a rebuilt. As Bretton said if you skimp anywhere on the rebuilt you are going to regret it later.

If you keep the original you can still decide to have it rebuilt again decently in future. BTW of all the guys I know that installed the knock off only Family Dog so far actually took the trouble to rebuild his original motor but I doubt if he will need it soon.

Some original 4Ys only last less then 200 000 kms, so if a knock off lasts only 100 000 kms it is still not to bad, as most rebuilds do not last as long as original motors out of the factory.

I do not know of any guys who's original motor that lasted only 160 000 kms and then achieved higher mileage on a rebuilt.

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:02 pm

I phoned commercial auto to get prices.
R9950 vir n complete een.
R6000 vir head block en sump.

Is daar enige ander plekke wat n goeie reputation het wat ek ook kan bel vir n quote?
Hoe sal mens weet of dit n chinese of korean motor is?
Is daar n groot verskil tussen chinese en korean?

Het enige iemand n idee hoeveel n goeie 7mge, of n 2.7 sal kos?

Bennie
Hoeveel sal jy my vra om BEFI vir my te doen?

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:51 pm

Hi Evert,

You don't need to buy the complete engine, "head-sump-block" is just fine, the carb,alternator and starter on the pirate engines are definitely not that hot(especially the carb)!!!!! Use your old original ancillaries and you should be just fine, that's exactly what we did for Richard's Dadz Toy.

I was really impressed with the motor in Dadz Toy, plenty of torque, and running really smooth(efi helps for sure)!

Oh ask the guys at commercial auto, as far as I can remember the casting on the cheap chinese version were really rough, the other one (referred to as Korean(although I can't find any reference to 4Y fabricated in Korea???)) looks alot like the Toy one(pretty good quality).

B

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:12 pm

Ek sten maam met Bretton kry die R 6000 ene van Commercial Auto. EFI gaan so R 11000-12000 kos afhangende van watter prys ek die spares voor kan optel.

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:25 pm

Blikskottel!!!!
R11000-R12000 vir efi is op die oomblik so bietjie buite my bereik.
Ek het gedog dit kos so R7000.

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:04 pm

Hi Evert,

Jammer om te hoor. 2 opsies, kry die head&block opsie of doen die motor heeltemal oor. Help nie net om te vervang wat jy dink is gebuig nie.

'n 7m deesdae gaan vir net die enjin so R4000-4500, dan moet jy nog ECU kry(nog +/-R2500).

Vir nou dink ek is die head&block opsie beter, haal uit, bou oor en sit in.

Louis

Post by **Family_Dog** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:56 pm

Evert, go for the Korean/Chinese one, the head/block/sump option is all you need. As Bennie says, I had the original motor rebuilt as well after having first purchased the Korean/Chinese 4Y, because I was worried it might not last and I also wanted to keep Bulldog 100% Jap original. The Korean engines do last! I did a lot of research at the time and it seems these engines do some 200,000km or more without any trouble. The rebuild cost me R8500 at the time whereas the Korean 4Y cost R6500, complete. But take care - the latter Chinese engines look very poor in quality compared to the high quality of the one I bought (and Rich BFI as well). I now have more doubts over the rebuilt engines because the Engineering Shops do skimp on parts, although I was assured they only use "high quality" components. The problems Snipes picked up with his rebuilt engine makes me feel this is the general rule rather than the exception.

On the subject of the cheaper Chinese engines, it seems the blocks are fine but the heads need to be replaced with a better quality head & valve gear and then they also give excellent service. Or so I have been told!

-F_D

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:24 am

Another option is to get a quality chinese block only, and use the original toy head you have(after having it checked/recon'd if needed). Putting the head on is a real simple procedure on a 4Y, some novices(like myself) tend to sukkel a bit with putting the push rods back under the rocker arms(especially when the lifters are full of oil).

B

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:24 pm

Does anybody know where i can get a quality chinese/korean block?
Tried commercial but they dont sell blocks only.

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:32 pm

What do you guys think about the motors from gemini?
Has anybody ever seen or used them?

Eric, waar het jy joune gekoop?
Dadz Toy, where did you buy yours?

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:50 pm

I just spoke to a guy who said he could give me an brand new 4Y from japan for R8500.
Then i ased him if it is genuine toyota motors and he said yes.
Can this be true?
What do you guys think?

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:55 pm

Evert Deyzel wrote:I just spoke to a guy who said he could give me an brand new 4Y from japan for R8500.
Then i ased him if it is genuine toyota motors and he said yes.
Can this be true?
What do you guys think?

If this is true
and I was you,
I would surely take it
thats what I would do.

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:03 pm

Ek dink ek gan more gan kyk.
Mar hoe sal ek nou weet of dit n REGTE TOYOTA is en nie n "fake" nie

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:48 pm

Die machanic het my nou gebel.
Hy sê al die conrods is gebuig en verder lyk alles oraait.
Hy qoute my R3000 dan gee ek hom ander conrods, hy sit nuwe main end bearing in, nuwe head gasget, sump gasket, en nuwe ringe.
Wat dink julle nou moet ek doen?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:56 pm

Watse parte gebruik hy? Hoeveel kilos het jou motor op?

Post by **LouisZ** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:15 pm

Evert, vra spesifiek watter "brand" parte gaan hy gebruik. Miskien 'n idee om die crank te doen as dit nodig is. Bly weg van no name brand parte.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:44 pm

Evert

Mine was a 4YP (Part Assembly) from Commercial at +/-R7000
Full Motors from Commercial R9500 +/-

Commercial only sell the Korean Motors where as Autozone and the likes sell the cheaper Chinese Motors.

A brand new Jap Motor is in excess of R15,000

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:46 am

Hi Dadz Toy

The quote i got from commercial was R6000 for a head block and sump.
Do you think it is the same quality as your motor?
The guy said it gomes from china....
Dont you think they maybe changed suppliers?

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:36 am

Evert Deyzel wrote:Hi Dadz Toy

The quote i got from commercial was R6000 for a head block and sump.
Do you think it is the same quality as your motor?
The guy said it gomes from china....
Dont you think they maybe changed suppliers?

It sounds like the 4YP; the prices are swinging around a bit at the mo' given the Global Financial Crisis and our yo-yo-ing currency exchange.

Commercial ONLY Stock the quality 4Y - so yes it should be the same as mine.

The cheapy 4Y is distinquisable by it's rough castings were as the "Korean" motor is flawlessly cast.

Commercial used to sell the cheaper 4Y then swopped over to the "Korean" motor after the Taxi Association started throwing their toys - the cheapy had premature head wear problems. :problem: :wth:

The boss at Commercial Cape Town assures me that this "Korean" motor has given them no warranty headaches and there are Hiaces out there clocking Kms that were only thought posssible for Original Japanese 4Y's.

You can install the 4YP yourself, just take time to strip the auxilaries off your old 4Y, clean everything and replace any hoses, pipes, bearings that look warn. It can be done over a weekend with ease.

The 4YC (complete motor) from Commercial has everything except the power steering pump (and a/c compressor if you have one). The carbs that they are now using are pretty good as is the Alternator and fuel pump, but I'm not sure about the clutch

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:09 am

I've have heard the chinese/korean carb is a dog, much better to keep the Aisin/Nikki, also rather keep the original alt, usually a Bosch, but some lux's have a Lucas/PrestoLite AS123, which is ok, but the Bosch is just better!

B

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:27 am

Thanks guys.
I think i am going to buy one of the commercial 4yp and fit my aircon pump, altenator (bosch), powersteering, ect.
Do you know if the sump is for a taxi or hilux?

And then...
Can somebody advise me on any procedures in starting her up the first time, running in the new motor etc.

Thanks for all your help.

Post by **LouisZ** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:48 am

The sump is usually for the Taxis, take yours off and put onto the new motor, otherwise your frontaxle will dent it the first nice axle twister that you take. If the new engine come with pressure plate & clutch, rather replace with the old engine's or get a Sachs for R740( I will help you there). I found my clutch already slipping after a year. Only problem with my rip off 4Y at the moment. The rest just remember to put in OIL before you start and to inspect all pulleys hoses that it fit properly, watch out at the rear of the engine for your heater hoses, make sure you tighten them tight. Check your engine mountings, you could get a suprise.

Before the start, charge your battery that it have enough juice in it, after that it should start easy. Run in, after 1000km replace oil and oil filter and take it for a tune up. Tehn services as usuall.

Louis

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:28 am

4x4megaworldpta wrote:The sump is usually for the Taxis, take yours off and put onto the new motor, otherwise your frontaxle will dent it the first nice axle twister that you take. Louis

Or

Leave on the Taxi Sump and adjust it "Manually"

I "Manually Adjusted" mine at Boegoeberg, the sump now has a perfect diff shaped indent in it :roll:

As Louis said, just make sure you've got Mineral Oil in it and a good quality coolant.

Some okes belief in pouring a dash of mineral oil into each cylinder 1st then running her till she stops smoking.

No need to retorque the head bolts on the "Korean Motors".

I ran mine for 5000 kms on Shell Helix Mineral Oil before changing oil and filter, I then filled it with synthetic 10w50 Oil.

When you first start her; check, re-check and check again for coolant leaks.

When I serviced her after 5000kms I found a few bolts that needed re-tightening.

Don't use your old belts and hose clamps rather buy new ones for peace of mind.

Here's the Link from when I installed mine:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4238

Post by **LouisZ** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:41 am

Mine also got the Manual adjusted sump!

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:23 am

Hey guys!

'Manually adjusting' the sump can be dangerous, the oil pickup lies inside the sump, just above the oil drain hole, there is a pipe that feeds oil from the pickup to the oil pump, if the pickup or the pipe feeding the pump get damaged you could be in for serious trouble. Bottom line rather fit the old sump, don't use the old cork gasket, clean the mating surfaces on the sump and block well, use grey silicone sealer such as Locktite/Permatex grey, don't over tighten the sump bolts. On running the engine in, I doubt that the engine has been broken in on a bench, so I would do the break-in procedure again. Here is the method I used on my recent 4Y rebuild, the aim to get the rings to 'bed-in' on the bore and avoid bore glazing.

Read this forum for the start-up procedure:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5343

On startup it is important to keep the engine at about 2000 rpm from cold until the engine has reached full operating temp, thereafter you should take it for a 20-30km run on a quiet mildly hilly road, accelerating/decelerating for 40km to 100km, throught the gears, keeping the revs between 1500-4000 rpm, don't drive it soft, give it a bit of stick, the compression rings need the combustion pressure to bed in properly! Never run the engine at steady rpm for long.

Also don't use multi grade oil for the first 1000km to 1500km, use a mono grade 30(preferably) or 40 weight(if you really can't find 30W). I found 30W Engen oil at Trade Centre. After 1000km change the oil/filter to a multigrade oil. Then I wouldn't use a synthetic oil until after 5000kms, if you plan on using synthetic. A 4Y(a engine design in the 80's) is a flat tappet engine and so many of the technologically advanced oil of today are not suitable for these engine. Modern engine no longer have flat tappet, but use roller bearing against the cam.

Read this for more info:
http://www.ctci.org/membership/Gilsgarage/EngineOil.htm
and
http://ohiomotorpool.oldmv.com/htm-file ... ion-tv.htm

Basically modern oils rated API SG are not good for a 4Y(using them can lead to premature cam lobe wear/failure), and you should rather use an oil rated CI4, CH4, CG4, CF4, CF or SL. I plan on using a so called diesel optimised oil such as Castrol Rotella T(if I can find it) of Caltex Delo 400 Gold, they both have enough ZDDP/anti-wear agents in for the old 4Y.

Hope this all helps...

B

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:32 am

snipes wrote:Hey guys!

'Manually adjusting' the sump can be dangerous, the oil pickup lies inside the sump, just above the oil drain hole, there is a pipe that feeds oil from the pickup to the oil pump, if the pickup or the pipe feeding the pump get damaged you could be in for serious trouble.B

Wori nie, he oil drain hole on the Hiace sump is well away from the indent so no chance of the aforementioned happening nê

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:30 pm

Bretton Delo 400 or Delo Gold? Apparently Delo Gold not nearly as good a oil as Delo 400.

I bought 2 new cans last week as the Pajero and the Camry needs an oil service. Before Delo my Pajero used a fe pints between services and since switching to Delo400 she has not used a drop from 140 000 - 160 000 kms

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:48 am

Sorry Bennie, Caltex Delo 400 is the one! Delo Gold is also good, but 400 is the top of the range!

Read more:
http://www.caltex.com/sa/en/lubricants_info.asp

B

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:06 am

Do anybody know where i can buy a "korean" or high quality 4y from?
I only want the head block and sump.
I tried commercial and engines for africa but they only have complete engines.
This is quite urgent.

Thank you

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:07 am

Does anybody know anything about the engines sold at TV2 spares? Quality ect.

Jaco · Post by **Jaco** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:23 pm

Ai...ai, Evert, wat de bliksem het jy met my bakkie se enjin aangevang! Daai enjin was splinternuut vanuit Toyota SA se fabriek en het seepglad geloop kort voordat ek verkoop het!(sug ...nou is ek eers hartseer dat ek verkoop het!)

Nou net weer hier ingeloer sedert verlede jaar!
Weet nie hoe ver die enjin nou is, maar Toyota het 'n splinternuwe enjin verskaf vir nie veel meer as die ingevoerde goed twee jaar gelede.
Sterkte
Jaco Marais

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:31 pm

Hi Jaco

Die is n ander bakkie.
Die bakkie wat ek by jou gekoop het is gesteel so 4maande na ons hom gekoop het.
Daai bakkie was regtig baaaaaie naais.
die nuwe een lyk dieselfde net n 92 model.

Groete
Evert

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:14 pm

Evert

I can't believe that Commercial can't supply you a 4YP, can't they send you one up from Kaapstad

If you have to settle for a complete motor then rather buy one from Commercial as they only sell the High Quality Import.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:44 am

Evert, have you tried giving Gemini parts a call

0113341417

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:25 am

I Bought a 4yp from commercial and fiited it last weekend.
Very happy with the motor.
done 270km since install

Evert

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:30 am

Evert Deyzel wrote:I Bought a 4yp from commercial and fiited it last weekend.
Very happy with the motor.
done 270km since install

Evert

Coooooool, I was getting a bit worried there bru :roll:

Just do a double check on the tightness of bolts and hose clamps when you've done a few more km's nê

No need to re-torque the HG after 1000kms (Com's 4YP's have stretch bolts)

BUT do

change the oil and filter after 5000kms max

Well done on the fitment, did you enjoy doing it

Peekchaz

:shifty:

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:43 am

Evert, what did you decide to go with for oil?

B

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:54 am

Snipes

1. I am running it in on 30W monograde.
After 1000km i think i will go for Shell Rotella T 15W40 if i can find it.
Otherwise Caltex Delo 400 15W40
What do you think ?

2. I drove the engine soft for 30km
Then i gave it stick for 60km.
Now i am just driving normal and giving it stick once a while.
The motor has done +-270km now
Did I do the right thing for the first 100km?

Evert

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:00 am

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:
Evert Deyzel wrote:I Bought a 4yp from commercial and fiited it last weekend.
Very happy with the motor.
done 270km since install

Evert

Coooooool, I was getting a bit worried there bru :roll:

Just do a double check on the tightness of bolts and hose clamps when you've done a few more km's nê

No need to re-torque the HG after 1000kms (Com's 4YP's have stretch bolts)

BUT do

change the oil and filter after 5000kms max

Well done on the fitment, did you enjoy doing it

Peekchaz :shifty:

Hi Dadz Toy

Sorry no pictures of the surgery.
Can post some pics of the motor already in?
I really enjoyed it a lot.
What is stretch bolts and how do they work?

Evert

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:05 pm

Evert Deyzel wrote:Snipes

1. I am running it in on 30W monograde.
After 1000km i think i will go for Shell Rotella T 15W40 if i can find it.
Otherwise Caltex Delo 400 15W40
What do you think ?

2. I drove the engine soft for 30km
Then i gave it stick for 60km.
Now i am just driving normal and giving it stick once a while.
The motor has done +-270km now
Did I do the right thing for the first 100km?

Evert

No problems with your break in! Did you prime the oil circuits before starting the engine? If not, don't worry as it can't be done now... Rotella T and Delo 400 are both excellent oils...

On the stretch bolts, they have pro's and con's, makes interesting reading:

http://www.ferobrake.co.za/ktml2/files/ ... 0Bolts.pdf
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/engine ... bolts.html

The interesting thing with stretch bolts, as far as I can see, is that the conventional torque wrench is rendered useless, as the bolts are torqued/tightened to spec via the amount of rotation applied, rather than actual wrench torque settings, take a look at the pic below, tightening stretch bolts on a V8 Rand Lover:

B