Dyno Charts
- Gunta
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
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- Real Name: Mark
- Location: Tofo mozambique.
Re: Dyno Charts
What is your consumption now? I think the chip is worth doing after speaking to Steven. You should get a better fuel consumption and better torque. I am more interested in the torque at low rpm because that is where its needed the most and you get better fuel economy too.
Worry about the things you can do something about, If you can't don't worry.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
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- LR 4WD Full Lockers
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Re: Dyno Charts
I got 7.7 km/l BUT I drove 671km and refuel, I would like to refuel again before I make calculations. Keep me updated please !!
- Gunta
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
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- Real Name: Mark
- Location: Tofo mozambique.
Re: Dyno Charts
What speed were you driving and if you were going off the trip meter in the car remember it is not that accurate with 30"tyres. You should check it against the GPS. I get around 7km/l with the 33" tyres and 6.4km/l with 31" tyres on the GPS.
Worry about the things you can do something about, If you can't don't worry.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
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- High Range 4WD
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Re: Dyno Charts
hi guys
took my 2003 KZTE to Steves this morning for a dyna/tuneup (the R850 job)
they just phoned me and told me the results:
(at the wheels)
power: 78
torque: 350
o ja hulle se die boost is 10 pond (of .7 bar?)
good / bad / ok?
thanks!
took my 2003 KZTE to Steves this morning for a dyna/tuneup (the R850 job)
they just phoned me and told me the results:
(at the wheels)
power: 78
torque: 350
o ja hulle se die boost is 10 pond (of .7 bar?)
good / bad / ok?
thanks!
- Gunta
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
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- Real Name: Mark
- Location: Tofo mozambique.
Re: Dyno Charts
With the chip and intercooler they get around 90kw, 78 is not bad for standard.
Worry about the things you can do something about, If you can't don't worry.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
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- High Range 4WD
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Re: Dyno Charts
problem is i have their chip AND their intercooler..........
is something wrong perhaps?
is something wrong perhaps?
- Gunta
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
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- Real Name: Mark
- Location: Tofo mozambique.
Re: Dyno Charts
check that your turbo is not leaking.
Worry about the things you can do something about, If you can't don't worry.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
- Barrie
- Low Range 4WD
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Re: Dyno Charts
Ek het my bakkie verlede week ge efi. Ek het vandag die Dyno ding in Pretoria gedoen.
My doelwit was krag op laer revolusies en ekonomie op hoër snelhede.
Ek het 31' Hankook ATM's op.
Bakkie het 'n Freeflow uitlaat.
Die kurwe lyk vir my vreemd. Kommentaar asb.
My doelwit was krag op laer revolusies en ekonomie op hoër snelhede.
Ek het 31' Hankook ATM's op.
Bakkie het 'n Freeflow uitlaat.
Die kurwe lyk vir my vreemd. Kommentaar asb.
- Attachments
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- Dyno.pdf
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Last edited by Barrie on Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Theodorus
- Low Range 4WD
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Dyno Charts
Ek het 30 s op gehaad toe sit ek 32 khumo op toe drop my krag met ten minste 20 percent toe sit ek n chip in nou is my krag dieselfde nog bietjie swak as ek tou gaan n gasflo doen en branshes sal dan goed tou het n free flow op
- cprinsloo
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
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Re: Dyno Charts
Hi Barrie,Barrie wrote:Ek het my bakkie verlede week ge efi. Ek het vandag die Dyno ding in Pretoria gedoen.
My doelwit was krag op laer revolusies en ekonomie op hoër snelhede.
Ek het 31' Hankook ATM's op.
Bakkie het 'n Freeflow uitlaat.
Die kurwe lyk vir my vreemd. Kommentaar asb.
Die maks hp lyk bietjie laag. Die torque lyk goed by lae refs maar val dalk te vinnig, daai kurwe moet dalk bietjie platter wees. Ek's nie die ekspert nie, dis maar net as ek kyk na ander grafieke. Hoe ry die bakkie? Beter/slegter? Ek sien die kilo's is bietjie hoog. Is die engine al oorgedoen? Hoe is die kompressie? 'n Paar van ons glo maar aan Schalk se tuning, ek ken nie die Mr Turbo ouens nie.
Cheers,
C
1998 Hilux D/C Lexus VVTi
- LouisZ
- Monster Truck
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Re: Dyno Charts
Die Dyna se resultaat is nie reg, die Hp is te laag vir so Efi, die grafiek is verkeerd om. Watter Ecu is dit? Die dizzy as dit nie reg gestel of gelock is gaan die Sisteem nie goed wees.
- Barrie
- Low Range 4WD
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Re: Dyno Charts
Chris: Die bakkie ry beslis beter. Die engin is nie oorgedoen nie. Sal die naweek kompressie toets.Hy gebruik min olie. So 500ml op 2500km.
Louis: Dis 'n Dictator. Ek het die dizzy oopgemaak en alles is vas. Die rotor het volgens my te veel speling. Ek het vandag 'n nuwe een bestel. Dan sal ek kyk wat maak hy.
Dankie vir julle terugvoer.
Louis: Dis 'n Dictator. Ek het die dizzy oopgemaak en alles is vas. Die rotor het volgens my te veel speling. Ek het vandag 'n nuwe een bestel. Dan sal ek kyk wat maak hy.
Dankie vir julle terugvoer.
- cprinsloo
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
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Re: Dyno Charts
Barrie,
Iets wat ek nog moet doen om seker te maak die rotor timing is reg: die rotor kontak moet gepoleer word, dan maak die vonk blykbaar na 'n ruk 'n merk waar die vonk spring. Die meeste vonk moet omtrent in die middel van die rotor kontak wees. Soos gesê ek moet nog myne check.
Wat is los, die rotor of die rotor as? Daai dissy se as loop in 'n bearing en 'n bus, dalk is hulle geslyt? En die gaping tussen die toothed wheel en die magnestiese pick-up moet so klein moontlik wees (0.2 mm??). 350K km dink ek is glad nie te sleg nie!!
Voorspoed!!
C
Iets wat ek nog moet doen om seker te maak die rotor timing is reg: die rotor kontak moet gepoleer word, dan maak die vonk blykbaar na 'n ruk 'n merk waar die vonk spring. Die meeste vonk moet omtrent in die middel van die rotor kontak wees. Soos gesê ek moet nog myne check.
Wat is los, die rotor of die rotor as? Daai dissy se as loop in 'n bearing en 'n bus, dalk is hulle geslyt? En die gaping tussen die toothed wheel en die magnestiese pick-up moet so klein moontlik wees (0.2 mm??). 350K km dink ek is glad nie te sleg nie!!
Voorspoed!!
C
1998 Hilux D/C Lexus VVTi
- Barrie
- Low Range 4WD
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Re: Dyno Charts
Die rotor self is los. Ek dink dis 'n pirate rotor. Dis die dizzy wat ek saam met die efi setup gekry het.
Ek het gister 'n genuine ene bestel. Teen 'n prys natuurlik.
Ons het die airgap gestel en ek dink hys reg.
Sal laat weet wat verder gebeur.
Ek het gister 'n genuine ene bestel. Teen 'n prys natuurlik.
Ons het die airgap gestel en ek dink hys reg.
Sal laat weet wat verder gebeur.
- GeorgeJvR
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Re: Dyno Charts
Well i took the plunge and did the dyno on Friday
1500 RPM 26.7 Power 140.2 TRQ
2000 39.1 154.0
3000 56.7 148.9
4000 70.0 137.9
5000 71.6 112.80
5500 62.9 90.1
Peaked at 4600 RPM 74 Power
What is opinion?
Must say the increase from the before 66.8 to the after 74 is a welcome 7.2
mutch more drivable but i'l still do the EFI if money is availible
want to push 200NM and 85+ Power
1500 RPM 26.7 Power 140.2 TRQ
2000 39.1 154.0
3000 56.7 148.9
4000 70.0 137.9
5000 71.6 112.80
5500 62.9 90.1
Peaked at 4600 RPM 74 Power
What is opinion?
Must say the increase from the before 66.8 to the after 74 is a welcome 7.2
mutch more drivable but i'l still do the EFI if money is availible
want to push 200NM and 85+ Power
To Buy and sell a vehicle is my hobby
Make a deal that no one else thought possible is my aim
Kom wat wil ek bly 'n Bul!
Make a deal that no one else thought possible is my aim
Kom wat wil ek bly 'n Bul!
- GeorgeJvR
- Monster Truck
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Re: Dyno Charts
STD motor, a brospeed branch is the only mod i know of.
To Buy and sell a vehicle is my hobby
Make a deal that no one else thought possible is my aim
Kom wat wil ek bly 'n Bul!
Make a deal that no one else thought possible is my aim
Kom wat wil ek bly 'n Bul!
- 4x4Maniac
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
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Re: Dyno Charts
I also took my KZTE in today for a tune and got the following results, mine also has an IC + chip.Gunta wrote:check that your turbo is not leaking.
81Kw / 368Nm
However I'm not sure what you mean Gunta with the turbo is leaking? Are you saying that it leaks from the inlet pipe or that the pressure is of the turbo itself is leaking?
I was actually more interested in the EGT (Exhaust Gas Tempertures) and I got a print-out of this as well - 700 Degrees/Celsius @ 3000 rpm. This test is done when the Lux is under stress and then read when the temp stops climbing.
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- Gunta
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
- Posts: 1872
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:36 am
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- Vehicle: 1996 80 series Land Cruiser VX 4500 EFI UK Import. Long range tank, Iron man suspension, ARB Bullbar, Front and rear diff locks, 33" BFG muds, Snorkel and attitude.
- Real Name: Mark
- Location: Tofo mozambique.
Re: Dyno Charts
A mate of mine had a similar issue and a pipe on the waste gate broke off and it was not boosting properly which is what I meant as the turbo leaking.
Worry about the things you can do something about, If you can't don't worry.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
Live life to the fullest with no regrets.
- 4x4Maniac
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Re: Dyno Charts
Nope mine is good, but wil keep a close eye on it... Hope its not on its:-)way out SAC increased the boost but not sure at what pressure...
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Re: Dyno Charts
Hi Almal,
Ek will net eers begin om te se, ek is nuut op die forum, so as ek iets verkeerd doen of hierdie post in die verkeerde topic, PLEASE don't kill me! Point my net dan asb in die regte rigting.
Ek ry 'n 2011 3.0D-4D 4x2 Manual 4x2 Double Cab Hilux. Het die bakkie verlede jaar Augustus gekry en van die begin af was die bakkie McAWESOME! In November vat ek hom vir sy eerste 10 000km diens by 'n handelaar in Pretoria, en van daar af gaan alles suid. Voor die diens was ek gewoond ek moet die bakkie redelik sag ry want op 1400 - 1500rpm skop die turbo in en as die pedaal te diep getrap is, voel dit of jy besig is met 'n 'quarter mile' toets. Op 80km/h le die revs presies op 1500rpm in 5de rat, so enige spoed bo 80km/h het ek nooit nodig gehad om terug te rat nie, ek kon net voet neersit.
Na die diens het die bakkie net nie meer dieselfde krag nie. Ek het dit onmiddelik agtergekom toe ek wegry van die handelaar af en op die hoofweg gaan ry. Daar is 'n duidelike gevoel dat die turbo eers inskop teen 1800rpm+ en hier van 2200rpm af trek hy eers weer oordentlik. Op die hoofweg moet ek vinniger as 100km/h ry in 5de of dit is nie die moeitewerd om te versnel in 5de nie, ek moet afrat.
So vat ek die bakkie terug die volgende dag en hulle doen toe allerande toetse, maar volgens die service advisor is alles reg. Hulle gaan ry met die bakkie en se hy trek soos alle 3.0 bakkies trek, maar ek volstaan dat iets nie reg is nie. So boek hulle die bakkie weer in vir 'n dag en vind naderhand uit hulle het te veel olie ingegooi en dit veroorsaak die bakkie om nie krag te he nie. Tap olie uit, toets bakkie alles volgens hulle is reg. Ek was nie twee blokke weg nie, en weet onmiddelik hy is nogsteeds nie soos hy was voor die diens nie. Die service advisor se toe hy kan dit nie verstaan nie, want al wat hulle gedoen het is: Olie vervang, Olie filter vervang, air filter uitgeblaas en 'n ECU security kit geinstall (bleikbaar steel hulle die bakkie deur die bonnet oop te buig, maar dis vir ander topic).
Ons gaan ry toe rons met die bakkie terwyl hulle diagnostics device ingeplug is in die bakkie. So wil hulle my toe nou bewys dat die bakkie reg is want volgens die diagnostic is die turbo druk 185-195psi en Toyota se specs se dit moet net meer as 170 wees. Ek verduidelik toe vir die ou, die nie die HOEVEELHEID krag wat die probleem is nie, maar WAAR in die rev range ek dit kry. Die krag is te laat daar.
So maak hulle die voorstel dat die bakkie moet gaan vir Dyno run om te kyk hoeveel krag hy uitsit. En dis hier waar ek nou raad/hulp nodig het. Volgens die KW/Torque graphs wat ek al gesien het, moet die D-4D Hilux 'n flat torgue line het. Die bakkie se stats op Toyota se website se dat hy gee 343NM vanaf 1400 - 3200rpm. Dus is my mening dat die grafiek styl moet klim van idle tot by 1400rpm en dan peak, flatline run op peak tot op 3200rpm en dan gelydelik afplat top op 4500 waar hy dan nou redline.
So lyk my Dyno grafiek: Nou wil ek weet by die manne wat weet. Verstaan ek iets verkeerd of bewys die grafiek dat daar wel iets fout is? Ek het hierdie topic deurgelees van die begin af en ek sien al die ouens met die diesel bakkies se torque line is redelik 'flat'. Begin baie vroeg in die rev range peak en dan later plat hy af. Die hoevellheid krag wat hy uitsit lyk reg, want mens verloor mos ongeveer 9-10% krag in die hoëveld in vergeleke met die kus. So 10% van 343NM is 35NM wat jou dan 308NM gee en dit korospondeer met die grafiek. Wat wel nie reg lyk nie is die feit dat die grafiek aanhou klim tot waar hy dan nou peak op 3000rpm.
Julle insae sal opreg waardeur word. Laat weet maar as ek heel van die pad af is!
Ek will net eers begin om te se, ek is nuut op die forum, so as ek iets verkeerd doen of hierdie post in die verkeerde topic, PLEASE don't kill me! Point my net dan asb in die regte rigting.
Ek ry 'n 2011 3.0D-4D 4x2 Manual 4x2 Double Cab Hilux. Het die bakkie verlede jaar Augustus gekry en van die begin af was die bakkie McAWESOME! In November vat ek hom vir sy eerste 10 000km diens by 'n handelaar in Pretoria, en van daar af gaan alles suid. Voor die diens was ek gewoond ek moet die bakkie redelik sag ry want op 1400 - 1500rpm skop die turbo in en as die pedaal te diep getrap is, voel dit of jy besig is met 'n 'quarter mile' toets. Op 80km/h le die revs presies op 1500rpm in 5de rat, so enige spoed bo 80km/h het ek nooit nodig gehad om terug te rat nie, ek kon net voet neersit.
Na die diens het die bakkie net nie meer dieselfde krag nie. Ek het dit onmiddelik agtergekom toe ek wegry van die handelaar af en op die hoofweg gaan ry. Daar is 'n duidelike gevoel dat die turbo eers inskop teen 1800rpm+ en hier van 2200rpm af trek hy eers weer oordentlik. Op die hoofweg moet ek vinniger as 100km/h ry in 5de of dit is nie die moeitewerd om te versnel in 5de nie, ek moet afrat.
So vat ek die bakkie terug die volgende dag en hulle doen toe allerande toetse, maar volgens die service advisor is alles reg. Hulle gaan ry met die bakkie en se hy trek soos alle 3.0 bakkies trek, maar ek volstaan dat iets nie reg is nie. So boek hulle die bakkie weer in vir 'n dag en vind naderhand uit hulle het te veel olie ingegooi en dit veroorsaak die bakkie om nie krag te he nie. Tap olie uit, toets bakkie alles volgens hulle is reg. Ek was nie twee blokke weg nie, en weet onmiddelik hy is nogsteeds nie soos hy was voor die diens nie. Die service advisor se toe hy kan dit nie verstaan nie, want al wat hulle gedoen het is: Olie vervang, Olie filter vervang, air filter uitgeblaas en 'n ECU security kit geinstall (bleikbaar steel hulle die bakkie deur die bonnet oop te buig, maar dis vir ander topic).
Ons gaan ry toe rons met die bakkie terwyl hulle diagnostics device ingeplug is in die bakkie. So wil hulle my toe nou bewys dat die bakkie reg is want volgens die diagnostic is die turbo druk 185-195psi en Toyota se specs se dit moet net meer as 170 wees. Ek verduidelik toe vir die ou, die nie die HOEVEELHEID krag wat die probleem is nie, maar WAAR in die rev range ek dit kry. Die krag is te laat daar.
So maak hulle die voorstel dat die bakkie moet gaan vir Dyno run om te kyk hoeveel krag hy uitsit. En dis hier waar ek nou raad/hulp nodig het. Volgens die KW/Torque graphs wat ek al gesien het, moet die D-4D Hilux 'n flat torgue line het. Die bakkie se stats op Toyota se website se dat hy gee 343NM vanaf 1400 - 3200rpm. Dus is my mening dat die grafiek styl moet klim van idle tot by 1400rpm en dan peak, flatline run op peak tot op 3200rpm en dan gelydelik afplat top op 4500 waar hy dan nou redline.
So lyk my Dyno grafiek: Nou wil ek weet by die manne wat weet. Verstaan ek iets verkeerd of bewys die grafiek dat daar wel iets fout is? Ek het hierdie topic deurgelees van die begin af en ek sien al die ouens met die diesel bakkies se torque line is redelik 'flat'. Begin baie vroeg in die rev range peak en dan later plat hy af. Die hoevellheid krag wat hy uitsit lyk reg, want mens verloor mos ongeveer 9-10% krag in die hoëveld in vergeleke met die kus. So 10% van 343NM is 35NM wat jou dan 308NM gee en dit korospondeer met die grafiek. Wat wel nie reg lyk nie is die feit dat die grafiek aanhou klim tot waar hy dan nou peak op 3000rpm.
Julle insae sal opreg waardeur word. Laat weet maar as ek heel van die pad af is!
- LouisZ
- Monster Truck
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Re: Dyno Charts
Joune is reg, hy gaan redelik op, bereik sy piek en gaan weer af.
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Re: Dyno Charts
Hi Louis,
Maar die torque grafiek in artikels oor die Hilux lyk dan heel anders. Aangeheg die diagram van die Hilux soos getoets deur CAR.
Is hierdie dan 'n wanvoorstelling van die torque wat die bakkie uitsit?
Maar die torque grafiek in artikels oor die Hilux lyk dan heel anders. Aangeheg die diagram van die Hilux soos getoets deur CAR.
Is hierdie dan 'n wanvoorstelling van die torque wat die bakkie uitsit?
- The Legend
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Re: Dyno Charts
Corne
Dit lyk vir my na n skematiese voorstelling en nie n werklike dyo print out nie.Ek het nog nooit n dyno print out gesien wat se lyne soos presies reguit loop nie.Ek kan verkeerd wees.Just m2c
Dit lyk vir my na n skematiese voorstelling en nie n werklike dyo print out nie.Ek het nog nooit n dyno print out gesien wat se lyne soos presies reguit loop nie.Ek kan verkeerd wees.Just m2c
“A BAD DAYS FISHING IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAYS WORK”
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- 4x4Maniac
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
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Re: Dyno Charts
Hi Corne,
Wat my pla is jy se dit het gevoel of hy meer krag gehad het? Het jy die bakkie nuut gekoop 2de hands? En is daar nie dalk n chip in wat deur die Ecu security kit gedisable was nie?
Wat my pla is jy se dit het gevoel of hy meer krag gehad het? Het jy die bakkie nuut gekoop 2de hands? En is daar nie dalk n chip in wat deur die Ecu security kit gedisable was nie?
ORRA CALLSIGN X120
AKA Epsilon on 4x4Community
(2011 JKUR)
Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.8 Auto Unlimited
Rugged Ridge Front & Rear Bumpers
Rugged Ridge Light Guards
KC Spotlights
Previous:
2003 Toyota Hilux DC KZTE 3.0 4x4
2001 Toyota Hilux DC 2700i 4x4
AKA Epsilon on 4x4Community
(2011 JKUR)
Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.8 Auto Unlimited
Rugged Ridge Front & Rear Bumpers
Rugged Ridge Light Guards
KC Spotlights
Previous:
2003 Toyota Hilux DC KZTE 3.0 4x4
2001 Toyota Hilux DC 2700i 4x4
-
- Newbie
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:48 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: Hilux 3.0 D4D
- Real Name: Corne
Re: Dyno Charts
Hi Werner,
Brand New. 0km op die klok. Geen modifications gedoen nie. Stock standard.
Brand New. 0km op die klok. Geen modifications gedoen nie. Stock standard.
- JohanM
- Monster Truck
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- Real Name: Johan
- Club VHF Licence: HC126
- Location: Gauteng
- Contact:
Re: Dyno Charts
Corne,
EK wil graag net noem dat die verskil tussen die twee grafieke is agv dat die een is gemeet op die agterwiele en die een wat in Car is, is die Engine Dyno graph wat deur die vervaardiger vrygestel word.
Die Eerste grafiek se kalibrasie van die Dynometer is uiters belangrik en n klein vinger foutjie kan groot effek he op papier kan he.
Neem in ag dat op n agterwiel gedrewe voertuig het jy tussen 15% - 55% drivetrain powerloss van die flywheel af na die agterwiele toe. So die grafiek wat geneem is, word gemeet in Horsepower dus is die lesing wat jy daar het 145HP x 0.751 = 108.875 KW op die agter wiele. Dus is die kraglewering reg soos wat Louis ook hierso genoem het.
Die Kurwe van die grafiek kan verander word deur in n korter 3rde rat gewoonlik op Diesel enjins te dyno test maar die algemene praktyk in die motor toets industrie is om die diesels in 4rde rat te toets omdat dit die direct drive is op die ratkas. 1:1 ratio's gewoonlik en ook die spoed waarteen die voertuig getoets word is nie te hoog nie.
Petrol enjins wat weer hoër kan Rev word in 3rde rat getoets omdat die voertuie te vinnig ry op die dyno en dan kan die dyno nie akkurate lesings neem nie. Party petrol enjins haal tot 200 km/h in 4de rat en dan is die Dyno is te stadig om akkuraat te lees.
Hieronder is voorbeelde van hoe en enjin dyno lyk. Dit is sonder al die ekstra's op die voertuig soos Aircons ect. Dit is wanneer die vervaardiger die enjin se max krag toets. Enige vervaardiger se spesifikasies word gegrond op die lesings nadat daar heelwat enjins getoets en die lewering bevestig is.
Ek hoop die help om meer duidelikheid op die saak te werp oor hoekom die grafieke so verskil. Dit is nie oë verblindery nie.
EK wil graag net noem dat die verskil tussen die twee grafieke is agv dat die een is gemeet op die agterwiele en die een wat in Car is, is die Engine Dyno graph wat deur die vervaardiger vrygestel word.
Die Eerste grafiek se kalibrasie van die Dynometer is uiters belangrik en n klein vinger foutjie kan groot effek he op papier kan he.
Neem in ag dat op n agterwiel gedrewe voertuig het jy tussen 15% - 55% drivetrain powerloss van die flywheel af na die agterwiele toe. So die grafiek wat geneem is, word gemeet in Horsepower dus is die lesing wat jy daar het 145HP x 0.751 = 108.875 KW op die agter wiele. Dus is die kraglewering reg soos wat Louis ook hierso genoem het.
Die Kurwe van die grafiek kan verander word deur in n korter 3rde rat gewoonlik op Diesel enjins te dyno test maar die algemene praktyk in die motor toets industrie is om die diesels in 4rde rat te toets omdat dit die direct drive is op die ratkas. 1:1 ratio's gewoonlik en ook die spoed waarteen die voertuig getoets word is nie te hoog nie.
Petrol enjins wat weer hoër kan Rev word in 3rde rat getoets omdat die voertuie te vinnig ry op die dyno en dan kan die dyno nie akkurate lesings neem nie. Party petrol enjins haal tot 200 km/h in 4de rat en dan is die Dyno is te stadig om akkuraat te lees.
Hieronder is voorbeelde van hoe en enjin dyno lyk. Dit is sonder al die ekstra's op die voertuig soos Aircons ect. Dit is wanneer die vervaardiger die enjin se max krag toets. Enige vervaardiger se spesifikasies word gegrond op die lesings nadat daar heelwat enjins getoets en die lewering bevestig is.
Ek hoop die help om meer duidelikheid op die saak te werp oor hoekom die grafieke so verskil. Dit is nie oë verblindery nie.
Johan Marais
- LouisZ
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 2175
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:51 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: Toyota Hilux D/C 1996
- Real Name: Louis
- Location: Pretoria, Centurion
Re: Dyno Charts
Al wat jy kan vra as jy die dyna oor wil doen is om die Torque kurwe te skuif as jy wil bietjie meer regs na so 3200rpm toe. Verder is die dyna goed
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- High Range 2WD
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:51 pm
- Town: Randburg
- Vehicle: Hilux
- Real Name: Pieter
Re: Dyno Charts
I always go to Dastek in Monument Park. Attached is the DYNA for my 2003 4x4 KZTE with Intercooler and Unichip. Now have 187 000km and previous DYNA done at 129 200km and at 130 000 after I replaced the Injector tips.
Results:
129 200km before 112.3kw@3000rpm after 107.6 (they tell me it was over fuelling
130 000km before 107.6kw@3000rpm after 107.6kw
187 000km before 98.4kw@3000rpm after 105.7kw
Marty, your DYNA is impressive, can a free flow and performance exhaust make that big difference?
Results:
129 200km before 112.3kw@3000rpm after 107.6 (they tell me it was over fuelling
130 000km before 107.6kw@3000rpm after 107.6kw
187 000km before 98.4kw@3000rpm after 105.7kw
Marty, your DYNA is impressive, can a free flow and performance exhaust make that big difference?
- Attachments
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- 03 4X4 KZTE.pdf
- (59.67 KiB) Downloaded 274 times
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- High Range 4WD
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:11 pm
- Town: Hartbeesfontein
- Vehicle: 2001 Toyota Hilux KZTE 4x4 D/C
- Real Name: SP
Re: Dyno Charts
The Dyna Report for my 2001 KZTE fitted with IC, Unichip Q+ and Exhaust :
Gear Used : 3
RPM NM Before NM After KW Before KW After
1,500 207,6 258,5 32,6 40,6
2,000 248,4 323,3 52 67,7
2,500 246,4 310,2 64,5 81,2
3,000 225,1 269,7 70,7 84,7
3,500 170 209,1 62,3 76,6
4,000 126,6 153,5 53 64,3.
I read that the standard KZTE 85 KW and 315 NM. That's what mines about now after the IC, Chip and Exhaust.??
Gear Used : 3
RPM NM Before NM After KW Before KW After
1,500 207,6 258,5 32,6 40,6
2,000 248,4 323,3 52 67,7
2,500 246,4 310,2 64,5 81,2
3,000 225,1 269,7 70,7 84,7
3,500 170 209,1 62,3 76,6
4,000 126,6 153,5 53 64,3.
I read that the standard KZTE 85 KW and 315 NM. That's what mines about now after the IC, Chip and Exhaust.??
- Jxjdm
- Low Range 4WD
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:33 pm
- Town: Kempton Park
- Vehicle: '05 Raider 2.7i Legend 35. '99 Honda civic vtec. '99 Honda CR250R
- Real Name: Jake
Re: Dyno Charts
My Supercharged 3RZ plot.
(without intercooling)
Std graph in RED
S/C graph in BLUE
(without intercooling)
Std graph in RED
S/C graph in BLUE
- george
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 6565
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:16 am
- Town: Velddrif
- Vehicle: Triton 3.5l V6
- Real Name: George
- Club VHF Licence: HC107
- Location: Velddrif
- Contact:
Re: Dyno Charts
Here is my Dyno chart after a chip was fitted.
31' wheels.With free flow system,but with original manifold and torque box
31' wheels.With free flow system,but with original manifold and torque box
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.-Saint Augustine"
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- Monster Truck
- Posts: 7249
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
- Town: Cape Town
- Vehicle: Honda Jazz
- Real Name: Bretton
- Location: Brackenfell
Re: Dyno Charts
Shoooo George... that's a substantial jump in kW's! Veeerrrrryyyy nice!
Mr Pretorius must be getting the itch now...
Mr Pretorius must be getting the itch now...
- george
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 6565
- Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:16 am
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- Real Name: George
- Club VHF Licence: HC107
- Location: Velddrif
- Contact:
Re: Dyno Charts
Must say i was also impressed with the figures. The best part is I can feel a big difference when drivingMr_B wrote:Shoooo George... that's a substantial jump in kW's! Veeerrrrryyyy nice!
Mr Pretorius must be getting the itch now...
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.-Saint Augustine"
- Jackal
- High Range 4WD
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:04 pm
- Town: CTN
- Vehicle: Hilux 2700i D/C 4x4 2002
- Real Name: Carl
Re: Dyno Charts
Where is the best place to go for a dyno and tune in CTN? How much should I expect to pay?
Toyota Hilux 2700i DC 4x4 2002
KTM 300 XC-W 2008
KTM 300 XC-W 2008
- Samurai
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:39 am
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: 2008 Hilux Raider 3.0 D-4D D/C 4X4
- Real Name: Stuart
- Club VHF Licence: X209
- Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Re: Dyno Charts
Hi guys!
I obviously knew my bakkie had a UniChip fitted, but never knew how it was mapped... So I had a service done, all standard parts. Took it to Dastek and this is what they gave me...(see attachment). I have noticed that the fuel consumption has come down, was getting about 16.33L/100km, now I'm on 14.08L/100km (70% long distance travelling & 30% urban). I'm not sure if this is due to the remapping of the chip or due to the service. Either way, it's using less fuel!
I obviously knew my bakkie had a UniChip fitted, but never knew how it was mapped... So I had a service done, all standard parts. Took it to Dastek and this is what they gave me...(see attachment). I have noticed that the fuel consumption has come down, was getting about 16.33L/100km, now I'm on 14.08L/100km (70% long distance travelling & 30% urban). I'm not sure if this is due to the remapping of the chip or due to the service. Either way, it's using less fuel!
- Attachments
-
- 2700i DC 4x4.pdf
- (200.46 KiB) Downloaded 313 times
"from this day to the ending of the world... we in it shall be remembered. We lucky few, we band of brothers.
For he who today shed his blood with me shall be my brother."
-
- High Range 4WD
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:58 pm
- Town: Nelspruit
- Vehicle: 2004 Toyota Hilux 2700i 4x2 DC
- Real Name: Dillon
- Location: Nelspruit
Re: Dyno Charts
Here is my dyno chart. SAC stage one conversion with Chip, Free flow exhaust, Wildcat branches and airfilter modification
- Attachments
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- Dillon Hilux 2 7i 3RZ dyno -FE.pdf
- (23.85 KiB) Downloaded 309 times
- Boland4x4
- High Range 4WD
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:36 pm
- Town: Plattekloof
- Vehicle: 2005 Toyota Hilux 4.0 V6 DC 4x4 Auto
- Real Name: Jano
Re: Dyno Charts
Nogal interessant hoe SAC altyd hulle ambient correction opstoot vir die "after" toets. Verniet kW noem hulle hom......
No mods
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- High Range 4WD
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:58 pm
- Town: Nelspruit
- Vehicle: 2004 Toyota Hilux 2700i 4x2 DC
- Real Name: Dillon
- Location: Nelspruit
Re: Dyno Charts
Is daar 'n ander manier om die Dyno te doen? Ek is nie meganies nie maar as ek my grafiek moer vergelyk met van die ander lede lyk dit of ek gelukkig kan wees met my resultate.Boland4x4 wrote:Nogal interessant hoe SAC altyd hulle ambient correction opstoot vir die "after" toets. Verniet kW noem hulle hom......
Groete
- Stef
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 3125
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:54 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: '98 LTD
- Real Name: Stefan
- Club VHF Licence: X107
Re: Dyno Charts
Hier is my 22R se dyno resultate...lekker torque onderlangs maar dis ook maar al
- roeland.vlok
- LR 4WD Rear Locker
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:36 am
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: 97 SFA Hilux
- Real Name: Roeland
Re: Dyno Charts
Stefan,
Jou trok is lekker sterk!
Dink myne maak omtrent 'n halwe perd... Hehe!
Jou trok is lekker sterk!
Dink myne maak omtrent 'n halwe perd... Hehe!
- Stef
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 3125
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:54 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: '98 LTD
- Real Name: Stefan
- Club VHF Licence: X107
Re: Dyno Charts
Dink jy so? Sal eintlik interessant wees om jou standaard 2.4 se dyno te sien...
Die EFi maak 'n groot verskil op die oop pad itv verby vat en opdraandes, sal nog moet sien of die petrolverbruik die kostes vd conversion sal regverdig.
Dink daaraan om die warm cam uit te haal en 'n standaard een terug te sit; of die Donaldson moet na 76mm gaan om daai ekstra 7 perde te kry op 5000rpm (nie dat ek daar ry nie, so die verskil sal eintlik minimaal wees)
Die EFi maak 'n groot verskil op die oop pad itv verby vat en opdraandes, sal nog moet sien of die petrolverbruik die kostes vd conversion sal regverdig.
Dink daaraan om die warm cam uit te haal en 'n standaard een terug te sit; of die Donaldson moet na 76mm gaan om daai ekstra 7 perde te kry op 5000rpm (nie dat ek daar ry nie, so die verskil sal eintlik minimaal wees)
- Hangover
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
- Posts: 1374
- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:55 am
- Town: Deneysville
- Vehicle: '76 FJ45 , '13 3.0 D4D Hilux
- Real Name: Stef
Re: Dyno Charts
Vir interesantheid...
N cruiser wat Mark Watson gedoen het my n 2JZ-GTE motor
:scared2:
Die cruiser was op die standaard ECU en daarna n Uniqchip ingesit as ek reg onthou.
Hierdie is alles wiel KW's op 33's as ek dit ook reg onthou
N cruiser wat Mark Watson gedoen het my n 2JZ-GTE motor
:scared2:
Die cruiser was op die standaard ECU en daarna n Uniqchip ingesit as ek reg onthou.
Hierdie is alles wiel KW's op 33's as ek dit ook reg onthou
- Attachments
-
- lc105-2jz-dyno.jpeg
- (188.35 KiB) Downloaded 1191 times
Hangover(A.K.A die speelding)
1976 FJ45 4x4
1UZ-FE 4.0vvti
2" OME Suspension lift
1.5" Shackle lift
35" Geo MT's
Custom Bullbar
Lockright Locked rear
York OBA
20" LED bar
Nighthawk 100W spots
Dakar
2013 3.0D-4D 4x4 Hilux Dakar
1976 FJ45 4x4
1UZ-FE 4.0vvti
2" OME Suspension lift
1.5" Shackle lift
35" Geo MT's
Custom Bullbar
Lockright Locked rear
York OBA
20" LED bar
Nighthawk 100W spots
Dakar
2013 3.0D-4D 4x4 Hilux Dakar
- roeland.vlok
- LR 4WD Rear Locker
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:36 am
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: 97 SFA Hilux
- Real Name: Roeland
Re: Dyno Charts
Stefan,
Glo nie ek sal gou 'n Dyno run doen nie. Het wel gesien by Lux het 'n Wildcat branch op en het al 'n ander 2.4 weg gery, maar mens kan nie se nie. Wil eers die bakwerk mooi maak en klein goedjies weer doen. Na dit sal ek begin vroetel met die donkie enjin. Ek oorweeg om 'n ander SFA te koop en hom te Lexus V8 wat BAIE sterk moet wees.
Sou ek 'n dyno run doen hou ek vir jou op hoogte!
Glo nie ek sal gou 'n Dyno run doen nie. Het wel gesien by Lux het 'n Wildcat branch op en het al 'n ander 2.4 weg gery, maar mens kan nie se nie. Wil eers die bakwerk mooi maak en klein goedjies weer doen. Na dit sal ek begin vroetel met die donkie enjin. Ek oorweeg om 'n ander SFA te koop en hom te Lexus V8 wat BAIE sterk moet wees.
Sou ek 'n dyno run doen hou ek vir jou op hoogte!
- cprinsloo
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
- Posts: 859
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:00 pm
- Town: Nelspruit
- Vehicle: 1998 D/C 4x4
- Real Name: Chris
- Club VHF Licence: X52
- Location: Mpumalanga
Re: Dyno Charts
Is dit net my verbeelding maar hoekom is hier so min Lexus dyno's hier????
1998 Hilux D/C Lexus VVTi
- AM Racing
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:30 am
- Town: East London
- Vehicle: Range Rover Classic V8
- Real Name: Dylan
- Location: East London
Re: Dyno Charts
For those curious. 1UZ-FE Round rail motor with 63mm freeflow and running Spitronics. Vehicle has 265/75/16 tyres.
This is wheel power flywheel corrected to 184kw. This was the base tune after installation. I will be doing more tuning next week as I have found restrictions in the induction system and have sorted out a few other things since then. Aiming for 140-145kW ATW and 300nm
This is wheel power flywheel corrected to 184kw. This was the base tune after installation. I will be doing more tuning next week as I have found restrictions in the induction system and have sorted out a few other things since then. Aiming for 140-145kW ATW and 300nm
- cprinsloo
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
- Posts: 859
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:00 pm
- Town: Nelspruit
- Vehicle: 1998 D/C 4x4
- Real Name: Chris
- Club VHF Licence: X52
- Location: Mpumalanga
Re: Dyno Charts
Nice flat torque curve!! Why do you call it the "round rail motor"?AM Racing wrote:For those curious. 1UZ-FE Round rail motor with 63mm freeflow and running Spitronics. Vehicle has 265/75/16 tyres.
This is wheel power flywheel corrected to 184kw. This was the base tune after installation. I will be doing more tuning next week as I have found restrictions in the induction system and have sorted out a few other things since then. Aiming for 140-145kW ATW and 300nm
1998 Hilux D/C Lexus VVTi
- AM Racing
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:30 am
- Town: East London
- Vehicle: Range Rover Classic V8
- Real Name: Dylan
- Location: East London
Re: Dyno Charts
there are basically two variants of the non-vvt motor. The differences being:
Injector size
Compression ratio
Power
The easiest way to tell them apart is by the injector rails. The square rail is the first generation UZ and had a compression ratio 10:1. It has thicker conrods and is favoured for boost. The injector rail is made of billet aluminium.
The round rail is a cast injector rail and it has a compression ratio of 10.4:1. This was done to reduce emissions primarily with a bump up in power. It also has bigger injectors.
Injector size
Compression ratio
Power
The easiest way to tell them apart is by the injector rails. The square rail is the first generation UZ and had a compression ratio 10:1. It has thicker conrods and is favoured for boost. The injector rail is made of billet aluminium.
The round rail is a cast injector rail and it has a compression ratio of 10.4:1. This was done to reduce emissions primarily with a bump up in power. It also has bigger injectors.
- cprinsloo
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
- Posts: 859
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:00 pm
- Town: Nelspruit
- Vehicle: 1998 D/C 4x4
- Real Name: Chris
- Club VHF Licence: X52
- Location: Mpumalanga
Re: Dyno Charts
Thx, one live and learn!AM Racing wrote:there are basically two variants of the non-vvt motor. The differences being:
Injector size
Compression ratio
Power
The easiest way to tell them apart is by the injector rails. The square rail is the first generation UZ and had a compression ratio 10:1. It has thicker conrods and is favoured for boost. The injector rail is made of billet aluminium.
The round rail is a cast injector rail and it has a compression ratio of 10.4:1. This was done to reduce emissions primarily with a bump up in power. It also has bigger injectors.
1998 Hilux D/C Lexus VVTi
- AM Racing
- LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
- Posts: 1214
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:30 am
- Town: East London
- Vehicle: Range Rover Classic V8
- Real Name: Dylan
- Location: East London
Re: Dyno Charts
Nice! There is still more there/Target AFR's for torque 12.2-12.5:1 Target AFR's for kW 12.7-13:1. You can see how it leans out (14:1) at that point. But still strong!
- JEEPIE
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 2052
- Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:36 pm
- Town: Roodepoort
- Vehicle: Official hilux 4x4 club recovery vehicle
- Real Name: Shaun
- Club VHF Licence: X 43
Re: Dyno Charts
lyk goed ne louis ?4x4megaworldpta wrote:Without further waiting, Bosbeer(Scorpion) Umm 35" Tyres...
en hy klink so mooi ook
OFFICIAL HILUX 4x4 RECOVERY VEHICLE
if you want to change this to recovered , first recover me - and have a relevant picture / foto to prove it !
ADVANCED 4x4 DRIVER COURSES DONE : US 254135 / US 254154
(STILL AWAITING SO-CALLED TETA CERTIFICATION VIA THE SERVICE PROVIDER AFRICAN OFF-ROAD ACADEMY - WHAT A JOKE)
if you want to change this to recovered , first recover me - and have a relevant picture / foto to prove it !
ADVANCED 4x4 DRIVER COURSES DONE : US 254135 / US 254154
(STILL AWAITING SO-CALLED TETA CERTIFICATION VIA THE SERVICE PROVIDER AFRICAN OFF-ROAD ACADEMY - WHAT A JOKE)
- LouisZ
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 2175
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:51 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: Toyota Hilux D/C 1996
- Real Name: Louis
- Location: Pretoria, Centurion
Re: Dyno Charts
We wanted the Torque very low. But yes it can improve.
Yes Shaun, I think I will Hijack that ...
Yes Shaun, I think I will Hijack that ...
- Willem van Schalkwyk
- Low Range 4WD
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:23 pm
- Town: Cape Town
- Vehicle: Hilux
- Real Name: Willem Van Schalkwyk
- bloublasie
- High Range 2WD
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:57 pm
- Town: Cape town
- Vehicle: 1990 toyota hilux dbl cab sfa 4x4
- Real Name: andre
Re: Dyno Charts
Hi Guys
I might be in the wrong section but I need some advice with my EFI installation.
I have the dictator system installed on my 4Y. My ride has improved a LOT, especially going up long uphills. I used to have to gear down to 4th sometimes even 3rd if I didn't have enough momentum but now usually I can make it in5th gear.
Only thing is that my fuel consumption has actually gotten worse and no matter how I drive, even open road I can't seem to get good mileage.
I had it Dyno'd at Ferolli's in Cape Town and as far as I know they do a pretty good job. I'm also getting some pinging when going uphill and flooring it.
I'll try and upload my settings tomorrow in case anyone can have a look at it.
Otherwise, any chance someone with the same Dictator system could send me their settings that I could upload onto mine and give it a try?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Andre
I might be in the wrong section but I need some advice with my EFI installation.
I have the dictator system installed on my 4Y. My ride has improved a LOT, especially going up long uphills. I used to have to gear down to 4th sometimes even 3rd if I didn't have enough momentum but now usually I can make it in5th gear.
Only thing is that my fuel consumption has actually gotten worse and no matter how I drive, even open road I can't seem to get good mileage.
I had it Dyno'd at Ferolli's in Cape Town and as far as I know they do a pretty good job. I'm also getting some pinging when going uphill and flooring it.
I'll try and upload my settings tomorrow in case anyone can have a look at it.
Otherwise, any chance someone with the same Dictator system could send me their settings that I could upload onto mine and give it a try?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Andre
- Family_Dog
- Moderator
- Posts: 12702
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 10:09 am
- Town: Klerksdorp
- Vehicle: Hilux DC SFA, Hilux 2.7 DC, Hilux 2.7 SC, Prado 95 VX
- Real Name: Eric
- Club VHF Licence: HC101
- Location: Klerksdorp, NW
- Contact:
Re: Dyno Charts
Andre, please PM me your email address.
-F_D
-F_D
White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4
One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage
- LouisZ
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 2175
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:51 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: Toyota Hilux D/C 1996
- Real Name: Louis
- Location: Pretoria, Centurion
Re: Dyno Charts
Your ignition timing is too advanced. The dizzy rotor phasing might be wrong.
I can send you maps. Just pm your details.
I can send you maps. Just pm your details.
- bloublasie
- High Range 2WD
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:57 pm
- Town: Cape town
- Vehicle: 1990 toyota hilux dbl cab sfa 4x4
- Real Name: andre
Re: Dyno Charts
Thanks guys!!
I have my maps on my wife's laptop. Sy was lekker kwaad toe sy dit in die garage kry met n paar olie fingerprints op.
I'll send it as soon as she gets home.
I'll try and PM my email address now.
thanks
Andre
- LouisZ
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 2175
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:51 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: Toyota Hilux D/C 1996
- Real Name: Louis
- Location: Pretoria, Centurion
Re: Dyno Charts
Send the one you have, I want to see how it is setup.
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- High Range 4WD
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:25 am
- Town: Cape Town
- Vehicle: Lumina
- Real Name: Nicholas
Re: Dyno Charts
Dyno'ed my 1998 SFA 22R, made some decent figures :)
Just kidding, it is my other toy, a 6.0L Lumina. Just thought I would post for interests sake.
Just kidding, it is my other toy, a 6.0L Lumina. Just thought I would post for interests sake.
- 4x4BEES
- Monster Truck
- Posts: 3447
- Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:13 am
- Town: Brackenfell
- Vehicle: Hilux 4.0V6
- Real Name: Kevin
Re: Dyno Charts
As ek my "monster" 2.4D 2L motor op daai dyno sit, gaan dit seker nie eens n meting gee nie