1986 Hilux 2.2 still worth it?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 pm

Hello everyone
I'm an archaeologist that does contract work all over the country. I have a limited budget and I need a reliable vehicle that will serve my needs for at least the next 5 years. I read about the early Toyota SFA 4x4 with 2.2 petrol engine and I have found what seems to be the right vehicle in excellent condition, but it is a 1986 model with just under 200 000 km. Is it realistic to expect a 30 year old vehicle to handle thousands more kilometres on a variety of roads reliably for at least another 5 years?
Jeremy

Post by **Family_Dog** » Tue May 17, 2016 6:31 pm

Hi Jeremy,

Welcome to the forum!

I would say - in general - that the 30 year-old SFA is still a very reliable vehicle. Thirsty and slow, but it should get you there!

-F_D

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Tue May 17, 2016 6:35 pm

Thank you. Yes, I have heard that they are slow going up hills especially.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Tue May 17, 2016 6:50 pm

absolute donkey - in the best sence possible.

SLOW, but keep on going and going ....

certainly not the vehicle for somebody in a hurry !!

but 200 000 km is not high for these motors. That said - rubbers have a limited lifespan. You may need to give a seriously major service - replace all radiator hoses, drive belts ... check anything that may perish with age .... But this applies to most any vehicle in this price range ....

Post by **Mud Dog** » Wed May 18, 2016 2:26 am

Welcome Jeremy.

Indeed an excellent vehicle and that mileage is small for those motors if it's been reasonably well looked after and not abused. You could have it checked out (include a compression test) before committing.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 10:59 am

ChrisF wrote:absolute donkey - in the best sence possible.

SLOW, but keep on going and going ....

certainly not the vehicle for somebody in a hurry !!

but 200 000 km is not high for these motors. That said - rubbers have a limited lifespan. You may need to give a seriously major service - replace all radiator hoses, drive belts ... check anything that may perish with age .... But this applies to most any vehicle in this price range ....

Thanks Chris
I can't afford to go fast! My budget doesn't allow it! So I will have to accept this limitation.
I will certainly bear in mind what you say about checking and replacing rubber components, together with other points suggested elsewhere on the forum (what to look for when buying an SFA)
Jeremy

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 11:06 am

Mud Dog wrote:Welcome Jeremy.

Indeed an excellent vehicle and that mileage is small for those motors if it's been reasonably well looked after and not abused. You could have it checked out (include a compression test) before committing.

Thanks for the welcome and the helpful reply. I have been checking the forum out over the past year or so and have finally had it with the 2006 Freelander I bought two years ago and which has given me nothing but trouble and expense, despite being a comfortable ride. I need something that I can rely on and that doesnt cost me a fortune.
It seems like the SFA I'm interested in has been well looked after and regularly serviced. No modifications. I do want to get it checked out though and I will remember about checking the compression, plus the many other points that are mentioned in another post in this forum (what to look for when buying an SFA). Can anybody recommend a mechanic/garage in Port Elizabeth to check it out? I live in Pietermaritzburg so I don't know who to go to...
Jeremy

Post by **Mud Dog** » Wed May 18, 2016 11:25 am

Hopefully one of the P E guys can steer you in the right direction. Otherwise take it to the AA or even a Toyota dealer.

Just as a matter of curiosity, what is the asking price? Do you have any pics of the vehicle that will give us an idea of how it's been looked after? - Like interior (seats, especially driver's seat, steering wheel wear, control pedal wear and floor covering) also engine bay, load bin interior etc.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 11:46 am

The seller is asking R97 000. What do you think? Room to haggle a couple of thousand? It was a Gumtree ad that has now expired so I can't show any pics today, but a friend in PE will go and take pics for me and then I can post them here on this forum. The vehicle looked very good in the pics but there were no pics of the engine itself, or the pedals, etc. I will ask my friend to take pictures of these and other critical areas.

This is what the seller said to me in an email:

"I bought the vehicle from my mother when my dad passed away some 10 years back. We lived in Gauteng and Limpopo at the time. I moved down to PE some 3 years back. When the vehicle started showing corrosion about a year and half back, I decided to nip it in the bud. I had the vehicle undergo a complete strip down of panels and resprayed, with the undercarriage treated as well. It was done by a professional panelbeater in Port Elizabeth (Capstone 504). I renewed all upholstery, including carpets and roof lining. The vehicle is next to new. It also had the engine serviced, and a new clutch fitted, as I could feel a little play which I was not comfortable with. I also had the carb replaced at Toyota Humansdorp after the respray, as I think there got some dirt in the carb when they disconnected and reconnected the parts. I wasn’t in the mood to battle to get it fixed, so I opted for the quicker option to replace at the agents. The vehicle had done 2 trips to Namibia with a bush trailor prior to the repairs. For the last 6 years I have literally used the vehicle just to dump my garbage at the local dump (600m away) , and taking the 5 dogs out for a run."

If he's being honest then it could be a good purchase. He's agreed that I can take it and get it checked out. Perhaps Toyota is the right place, as you suggest.

Thanks for your interest, I can't afford to make a mistake on this one!
Jeremy

JamesC · Post by **JamesC** » Wed May 18, 2016 1:26 pm

Sjoe...R97k seems a tad excessive. Don't shoot me but I must say I drove a Nissan Hardbody recently for a while. 2.4 petrol motor and extremely capable and I was most impressed. You can pick those up for R60-80k and then it is 2002-2005 models.

Just as capable and reliable...my 2c

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 1:39 pm

JamesC wrote:Sjoe...R97k seems a tad excessive. Don't shoot me but I must say I drove a Nissan Hardbody recently for a while. 2.4 petrol motor and extremely capable and I was most impressed. You can pick those up for R60-80k and then it is 2002-2005 models.

Just as capable and reliable...my 2c

Wow, only 10 years old as opposed to 30 years old for the Hilux! You're talking about 4x4?
Jeremy

Geel Kat · Post by **Geel Kat** » Wed May 18, 2016 1:54 pm

R97K does sound expensive - quite a bit of legend tax in there.

I bought a 2.2 4x4 new in 1995 for R95K (single cab, the double cab was R125K if I recall correctly) and sold it in 2000 for R97K with 250000km on the clock, nothing done to it except services.

Rusti · Post by **Rusti** » Wed May 18, 2016 2:14 pm

Hi Jeremy.

97K is crazy.. I bought my 1997 2.4 petrol with 177 000km for R82 000 2 years ago. That was with BFG All terains 10 000 km on. Brospeed exhaust. And a few other extras. It was a very good deal with all the extras but you could get another 90s 2.4P or 2.8D for a similar price. Also unless the shocks and leaves were replaced recently you will have to fork out some cash for those too.

I struggle up hills when loaded for camping so you may find you struggle to keep 120 up hills unloaded with the 2.2. I'm not interested in speed but there is always an idiot behind you that literally can't wait for you to get out the way so it creates some dangerous scenarios.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 3:04 pm

Rusti wrote:Hi Jeremy.

97K is crazy.. I bought my 1997 2.4 petrol with 177 000km for R82 000 2 years ago. That was with BFG All terains 10 000 km on. Brospeed exhaust. And a few other extras. It was a very good deal with all the extras but you could get another 90s 2.4P or 2.8D for a similar price. Also unless the shocks and leaves were replaced recently you will have to fork out some cash for those too.

I struggle up hills when loaded for camping so you may find you struggle to keep 120 up hills unloaded with the 2.2. I'm not interested in speed but there is always an idiot behind you that literally can't wait for you to get out the way so it creates some dangerous scenarios.

Thanks Rusti and Geel Kat
It's the legend tax that Geel Kat mentions! I need to decide whether to go for the Hilux legend or another brand that falls within my available budget (e.g. a Nissan--We have a Grand Livina that runs beautifully and I had Nissan 1400 for 16 years).
Jeremy

Post by **Mud Dog** » Wed May 18, 2016 3:21 pm

If it's in good nick as he says, the asking price should be closer to R80k. The things he mentions like new carb and clutch are service items and should not have a bearing on the price (other than it gives the buyer a bit more peace of mind if it was in fact done).

One could argue the same point with the other stuff he has mentioned, but ja, realistically it does go toward improving the value.

There is a reason why this never sold on Gumtree ....... his price is still out of the ballpark with the stuff he mentions.

I assume that he has a fall-back position which will be about R90k - a bit more realistic but still high. I would offer him R85k tops. You can mention that you are still going to have additional expenses like replacing the front leaf packs if they have sagged and doing the hub seals if they are showing signs of leaking - both are almost certain possibilities. (Neither of those are critical issues so you can do them in your own time a year or two down the line.)

.

Stef · Post by **Stef** » Wed May 18, 2016 3:56 pm

Mud Dog wrote: The things he mentions like new carb and clutch are service items and should not have a bearing on the price (other than it gives the buyer a bit more peace of mind if it was in fact done).

One could argue the same point with the other stuff he has mentioned, but ja, realistically it does go toward improving the value.

.

Agree to an extent; reconditioned engines, EFi & gearboxes definitely are more than piece of mind items IMO. If I were to sell my SFA I would ask at least R10k more just because I spent R14k on having the gearbox completely overhauled top to bottom.

Realistically though it's hard to recover those costs; people would rather buy something similar for R15k cheaper & then spend R30k fixing it

Dadz Toy · Post by **Dadz Toy** » Wed May 18, 2016 5:05 pm

I would have thought R80k was the maximum asking price and that would for me have to include a good pre-sale inspection!
As far as your concerns about longevity goes, save those for Nissan and other comparable vehicles.

Rich

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed May 18, 2016 5:11 pm

We sold a 2,7 end of last year, the Legend 35, the 4x2 version. Did not get that type of money ....

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 5:15 pm

Thanks for your helpful comments, Mud Dog, Stef Dadz Toy and Chris F. It gives me an idea of the negotiating range and I plan to have the vehicle checked out at Toyota, paying special attention to things you mention (as well as others). Then I will have the facts to back my offer.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Wed May 18, 2016 5:22 pm

The short and the long of the story is that Toyota SFA bakkies becomes collectors items nowadays. It is the condition of the bakkie and not the year model who will determine the value of the bakkie.

Standard SFA bakkies in mint condition easily sells for more than R100 000.00

Post by **Mud Dog** » Wed May 18, 2016 6:14 pm

Stef wrote:
Mud Dog wrote: The things he mentions like new carb and clutch are service items and should not have a bearing on the price (other than it gives the buyer a bit more peace of mind if it was in fact done).

One could argue the same point with the other stuff he has mentioned, but ja, realistically it does go toward improving the value.

.

Agree to an extent; reconditioned engines, EFi & gearboxes definitely are more than piece of mind items IMO. If I were to sell my SFA I would ask at least R10k more just because I spent R14k on having the gearbox completely overhauled top to bottom.

Realistically though it's hard to recover those costs; people would rather buy something similar for R15k cheaper & then spend R30k fixing it

No reconditioned engines, EFi & gearboxes in this case, Stef.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 6:33 pm

The Legend wrote:The short and the long of the story is that Toyota SFA bakkies becomes collectors items nowadays. It is the condition of the bakkie and not the year model who will determine the value of the bakkie.

Standard SFA bakkies in mint condition easily sells for more than R100 000.00

You're right, and most of the vehicles on offer have been modified.

Froll · Post by **Froll** » Wed May 18, 2016 8:33 pm

Jeremy, welcome. If you look on face book hiluxSFA.co.za, there is a 1989 2.2 Hilux with fuel injection and canopy for R65 000. May also be a good buy.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 18, 2016 10:25 pm

Froll wrote:Jeremy, welcome. If you look on face book hiluxSFA.co.za, there is a 1989 2.2 Hilux with fuel injection and canopy for R65 000. May also be a good buy.

Thanks for the welcome. I'll go and have a look

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Thu May 19, 2016 12:08 am

Ag, what is the diffs between R80 and R100? Not much if you consider a well lookad after example vs a well used example.

It's just money, afterall!

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Thu May 19, 2016 4:25 am

Froll wrote:Jeremy, welcome. If you look on face book hiluxSFA.co.za, there is a 1989 2.2 Hilux with fuel injection and canopy for R65 000. May also be a good buy.

There is a lot of rust to be repair on this bakkie

Stef · Post by **Stef** » Thu May 19, 2016 7:50 am

Mud Dog wrote: No reconditioned engines, EFi & gearboxes in this case, Stef.

Hehe...gathered as much

Just talking in general

JamesC · Post by **JamesC** » Thu May 19, 2016 8:43 am

The 2.4 Nissan hardbody 4x4 I think offers better value for money. Motor is bulletproof as well. Performs better than the 2.2 and better fuel efficiency. Cheaper to maintain. Google it.

Collectors value has no bearing. You are not buying it for that. You need something reliable, cheap to run. There are two standing here in potch at a dealer and if you like, I will have a look and send you pics.

My nr is 0834431879 if you want WhatsApp me.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Thu May 19, 2016 8:53 am

JamesC wrote:The 2.4 Nissan hardbody 4x4 I think offers better value for money. Motor is bulletproof as well. Performs better than the 2.2 and better fuel efficiency. Cheaper to maintain. Google it.

Collectors value has no bearing. You are not buying it for that. You need something reliable, cheap to run. There are two standing here in potch at a dealer and if you like, I will have a look and send you pics.

My nr is 0834431879 if you want WhatsApp me.

Thanks JamesC, the bottom line is that I have a limited budget and I need a good 4x4 (i.e a reliable one). That's what led me to the SFA Hilux--I know it can do the job. I will have a look at the Nissan too and see what I can get for the same money. Please do send me the specs and price of the two in Potch, I'm interested to see...
Jeremy

JamesC · Post by **JamesC** » Thu May 19, 2016 9:06 am

Single cab:
http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-cars-bakkies ... 0054282709" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Double cab:

http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-cars-bakkies ... 0890756609" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Will send details of the ones here later today.

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Thu May 19, 2016 11:05 am

JamesC wrote:The 2.4 Nissan hardbody 4x4 I think offers better value for money. Motor is bulletproof as well. Performs better than the 2.2 and better fuel efficiency. Cheaper to maintain. Google it.

Collectors value has no bearing. You are not buying it for that. You need something reliable, cheap to run. There are two standing here in potch at a dealer and if you like, I will have a look and send you pics.

My nr is 0834431879 if you want WhatsApp me.

Ja, the engine might be super reliable but the front suspension...that can cost you dearly - and often!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Thu May 19, 2016 11:18 am

JamesC wrote:Single cab:
http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-cars-bakkies ... 0054282709" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Double cab:

http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-cars-bakkies ... 0890756609" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Will send details of the ones here later today.

Thanks JamesC!
Jeremy

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Thu May 19, 2016 11:23 am

Thabogrobler wrote:
JamesC wrote:The 2.4 Nissan hardbody 4x4 I think offers better value for money. Motor is bulletproof as well. Performs better than the 2.2 and better fuel efficiency. Cheaper to maintain. Google it.

Collectors value has no bearing. You are not buying it for that. You need something reliable, cheap to run. There are two standing here in potch at a dealer and if you like, I will have a look and send you pics.

My nr is 0834431879 if you want WhatsApp me.
Ja, the engine might be super reliable but the front suspension...that can cost you dearly - and often!

Thabogrobler, it sounds like you have a story to tell!

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Thu May 19, 2016 11:28 am

Jeremy wrote:
Thabogrobler wrote:
JamesC wrote:The 2.4 Nissan hardbody 4x4 I think offers better value for money. Motor is bulletproof as well. Performs better than the 2.2 and better fuel efficiency. Cheaper to maintain. Google it.

Collectors value has no bearing. You are not buying it for that. You need something reliable, cheap to run. There are two standing here in potch at a dealer and if you like, I will have a look and send you pics.

My nr is 0834431879 if you want WhatsApp me.
Ja, the engine might be super reliable but the front suspension...that can cost you dearly - and often!
Thabogrobler, it sounds like you have a story to tell!

Search the net for D21 suspension issues and head over to http://www.nissan-offroad.co.za" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and search there.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Thu May 19, 2016 4:18 pm

Just had a quick look on Gumtree... You can buy a 2002 4x4 KZTE D/C for less than R100K... Newer model, more comfortable ride.. and still a Hilux with the same reliability built in..

Also white.. same as all Hiluxes..

I cannot see why SFA's still sell for R100K and up.. or even R80K and up for that matter.. I doesnt make sense..

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Thu May 19, 2016 6:25 pm

ThysdJ wrote:Just had a quick look on Gumtree... You can buy a 2002 4x4 KZTE D/C for less than R100K... Newer model, more comfortable ride.. and still a Hilux with the same reliability builtin.. Also white.. same as all Hiluxes..

I cannot see why SFA's still sell for R100K and up.. or even R80K and up for that matter.. I doesnt make sense..

But not the same off road ability than the SFA. m

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Thu May 19, 2016 6:27 pm

ThysdJ wrote:Just had a quick look on Gumtree... You can buy a 2002 4x4 KZTE D/C for less than R100K... Newer model, more comfortable ride.. and still a Hilux with the same reliability builtin.. Also white.. same as all Hiluxes..

I cannot see why SFA's still sell for R100K and up.. or even R80K and up for that matter.. I doesnt make sense..

But not the same off road ability than the SFA. Thys jy verstaan nie mooi nie die man soek n voertuig wat rowwe terrein kan hantteer en betroubaar is.Dit kry jy net in n SFA

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu May 19, 2016 6:31 pm

ThysdJ wrote:Just had a quick look on Gumtree... You can buy a 2002 4x4 KZTE D/C for less than R100K... Newer model, more comfortable ride.. and still a Hilux with the same reliability built in.. Also white.. same as all Hiluxes..

I cannot see why SFA's still sell for R100K and up.. or even R80K and up for that matter.. I doesnt make sense..

wou ook so iets sê ....

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Thu May 19, 2016 9:29 pm

Thanks everbody, this discussion has been very helpful so far. I have decided not to go for the 1986 Hilux. No aircon is a problem for me I didnt realise the 1986 hilux didnt have air con! I agree with the posrs here, I need to go for something more recent, much as I like the idea of owning an sfa. It's true that I do need to go off road, but I also do a lot of tar road kilometres. JamesC suggested a Nissan 2.4i -- I can get a 2008 model with 185 000 km for 105 000. Or a 2002 kzte for 139 000. Being on a Hilux forum, I know what most of you will recommend!

One thing that worries me about the Nissan is that it seems that the clearance (200 mm) is less than the Hilux (225 mm I think). How important are those 25 mm difference? Enough to pay more for an older model (i.e. Hilux)?

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri May 20, 2016 5:34 am

Jeremy ground clearance depends on your application. As long as you stay on gravel roads that is way more than you will ever need.

That type of ground clearance becomes important when you head into the "veld" and to negotiate real world obstacles .... frankly most would avoid such situations when traveling alone, the risk of getting stuck is just too great.

The Nissan Hardbody series have been around for many many years. I have a couple of friends that have had excellent service from their Hardbodies !

Another vehicle that has a pathetic resale value, but that offers EXCELLENT functionality for your use - 5 year old Ford Everest. Friend has one and have joined us on a trip along the Orange river, That Everest truly impressed the heck out of me !! Still its resale value is extremely low.

But this raise another point - do you really need a "bakkie" ? There is a host of very capable 4x4 SUV type vehicles to choose from ....

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Fri May 20, 2016 7:26 am

ChrisF wrote:Jeremy ground clearance depends on your application. As long as you stay on gravel roads that is way more than you will ever need.

That type of ground clearance becomes important when you head into the "veld" and to negotiate real world obstacles .... frankly most would avoid such situations when traveling alone, the risk of getting stuck is just too great.

The Nissan Hardbody series have been around for many many years. I have a couple of friends that have had excellent service from their Hardbodies !

Another vehicle that has a pathetic resale value, but that offers EXCELLENT functionality for your use - 5 year old Ford Everest. Friend has one and have joined us on a trip along the Orange river, That Everest truly impressed the heck out of me !! Still its resale value is extremely low.

But this raise another point - do you really need a "bakkie" ? There is a host of very capable 4x4 SUV type vehicles to choose from ....

Thanks. What SUVs do you have in mind?

JamesC · Post by **JamesC** » Fri May 20, 2016 8:57 am

Stay far far far away from the kz....

Sorry gents...but when you buy second hand gi for petrol and certainly not kz....been there, have the t shirt

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Fri May 20, 2016 11:19 am

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri May 20, 2016 4:21 pm

Just look around .... how many 20+ yr old Nissans / Fords etc. do you still see riding around .........

And SFA mechanical parts are still available.

JamesC · Post by **JamesC** » Sat May 21, 2016 11:20 am

Eish Andy...that is a somewhat biased statement to make. I see many Nissans (and bear in mind the D21 referred to in a previous post was first built in the early 80's and are still being built today!) as well as many fords, particularly F100 and the like.

The fact that the SAPS primarily uses the 2.4 Nissan Hardbody should really also tell you something about the punishment these vehicles can endure.

Make no mistake, I am a Toyota fan...but if you are bound to a budget and you have to compare numbers and leave the badge out of the equation then an old SFA is no patch on something like e.g late model Nissan ito price, performance, reliability, parts and affordability etc

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat May 21, 2016 1:21 pm

And the lower resale value of some other brands mean one can actually pick up a nice unit at a decent price.

3 years ago we bought a Tata Indica, with a 100 000km on the clock .... for the same money we could only get a 15 year old Tazz, vrot of rust ....

We took the gamble, bought it, gave a it a seriously major service. All the way to new hoses and timing belt etc ...

A lady student, who only just got her license got it, and is still driving it. Only issue we had was due to an aftermarket immobilser acting up.

Friend bought a Tata Telcoline to use on his farm. He takes care of his vehicles, and it was serviced properly and regularly. Gave him about 4 years trouble free service, until it got stolen - yes, I also laughed at the thought of somebody stealing a Tata. He bought another Telcoline for the farm. About 2 or 3 years later the first one was found by the police and he bought it back from the insurers. Both did duty for many many years on his farm.

NO, I am not a Tata fan ! But I can not ignore the fact that some of these vehicles, when taken care of, do give many trouble free kilometers

Comparing sales figures - I wonder what the percentage of 20 and 30 year old Toyota's are, and Fords, and Mazda's and .... Much less older models of the others on the road today, but then how many were actually sold back then.

My uncle have had many Hilux's over the years, and to his death refused to look at any other brand. Truth be told - he DID have his fair share of dud Hilux models as well ! His absolute worst experience was with a double cab diesel IFS model .... spent nearly 100k on it, and the next owner has had no better luck, just an absolute dud model. And his next one, a Legend 35 2.7 gave a good few years of absolute trouble free kilometers.

for the same (similar) money - yes I would buy Toyota !! But at a 20 or 30% premium ... nope

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat May 21, 2016 1:36 pm

SUV options ....

Staying with Toyota -
Various RAV4 models over the years. Original models were small, so not sure if has the space you need. Later models fetch a very high resale value.

Still with Toyota - but a different badge - Daihatsu (Toyota is the majority shareholder of Daihatsu) DO note that Daihatsu did not update their vehicles for Euro NCAP, and have stopped exports to the West. They finally stopped exporting to SA late last year.
Daihatsu Rocky had a very passionate following in its day !
Daihatsu Terios still has a very passionate following. Two years back I very nearly bought a Terios.

Ford Everest - these are VERY capable ! And totally underrated, and undervalued. Probably some of the best value for money second hand vehicles in its class.

Suzuki Vitara and the Grand Vitara - with Suzuki back in SA since 2010 parts are not a real issue. I owned the Jimny, and know many Vitara owners. Not one disgruntled. Pity the Jimny is totally over priced in the second hand market.

Sure there are many such options. These are the few I know well enough to speak of.

Your particular needs - packing space, load, etc will determine which options may be realistic/practcal for you.

JamesC · Post by **JamesC** » Sat May 21, 2016 3:43 pm

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat May 21, 2016 6:14 pm

So after typing here, Maritz (the 5 year old) and I take a drive in the RAV .... first thing he spots is a Mazda bakkie: "Ek wil n YOTA HILUX sien ..."

He only has eyes for a range of "YOTA" products. And any Leyland product is a "Range Rover" - which is what he spent most of his first three years in.

Guess we indoctrine them from a very early age ....

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Sat May 21, 2016 7:24 pm

I would be VERY suspicious of a 2002 Kz wirh only 130 000km!!

Unless you know the seller personally for at least a zillion years I can almost guarantee you the clock has been turned back!

As Ifs 's age so well, thet do not show their age or mileage so easy.

How much space do you need? A Jimny would suit your requirements fine!

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sat May 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Hmmm.... I know of a '99 2700i with a genuine 51,000km on it...

-F_D

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sat May 21, 2016 10:48 pm

The double cab bakkie is the best combination for my needs. In the R100 000 - 125 000 bracket. Petrol engine. For that amount I see advertised 2000 2.7 Hilux with at least 220 000km or 2008 NP300 Hardbody 2.4 with under 200 000 km.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sat May 21, 2016 10:52 pm

JamesC wrote:Eish Andy...that is a somewhat biased statement to make. I see many Nissans (and bear in mind the D21 referred to in a previous post was first built in the early 80's and are still being built today!) as well as many fords, particularly F100 and the like.

The fact that the SAPS primarily uses the 2.4 Nissan Hardbody should really also tell you something about the punishment these vehicles can endure.

Make no mistake, I am a Toyota fan...but if you are bound to a budget and you have to compare numbers and leave the badge out of the equation then an old SFA is no patch on something like e.g late model Nissan ito price, performance, reliability, parts and affordability etc

Thank you, this was good advice

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sun May 22, 2016 7:44 am

Jeremy wrote:The double cab bakkie is the best combination for my needs. In the R100 000 - 125 000 bracket. Petrol engine. For that amount I see advertised 2000 2.7 Hilux with at least 220 000km or 2008 NP300 Hardbody 2.4 with under 200 000 km.

step one done - bakkie it is

now for the next major decider - petrol vs diesel .... at that age I would walk away from the diesel models, for two reasons. Back then the diesels were real donkeys. at that age diesels can cost a pretty penny when things go wrong ....

The 2,7 certainly should be high on the list. Enough power to pass other vehicles, when the need arise you can actually exceed the speed limit, but when idling along at 110km/h it is actually light on fuel.

JamesC · Post by **JamesC** » Sun May 22, 2016 9:32 am

Chris, agreed. But again, the actual book value if the hilux is hardly R60k. Yet, it is sold for double that. I would rather go for 2008 model as those unseen items like rubbers etc are in better condition than a car double it's age.

We all have to agree on one principle...if it has wheels or tits, it is going to give you trouble. So how to minimise the risk is the question

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sun May 22, 2016 10:37 am

personally -

for a long term commitment - I DO spend more money on my "weekend" vehicle

For a daily driver - I need reliability, but look for the best value for money options. As a daily driver is a "consumable" to me, I look at the ownership cost, AND readily available spares ...

Collegue just had his year old Ford car's bumper damaged ... 5 weeks for the repairs. Same repairs on the Hyundai was only 10 days - but on a high volume model. The Etios got bumped on a site, 2 weeks to get into the panelbeaters, and got it back at the end of week three. Even such a short period messes with my schedule ... people that USE their daily drivers cant wait months for basic spares.

As was mentioned in a previous post - look at the volume models used by delivery companies. Spares should be readily available for these.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon May 23, 2016 5:29 pm

JamesC wrote:Eish Andy...that is a somewhat biased statement to make. I see many Nissans (and bear in mind the D21 referred to in a previous post was first built in the early 80's and are still being built today!) as well as many fords, particularly F100 and the like.

The fact that the SAPS primarily uses the 2.4 Nissan Hardbody should really also tell you something about the punishment these vehicles can endure.

Make no mistake, I am a Toyota fan...but if you are bound to a budget and you have to compare numbers and leave the badge out of the equation then an old SFA is no patch on something like e.g late model Nissan ito price, performance, reliability, parts and affordability etc

I got to thinking about what you said and I have to admit that there is a bias, but I think it's one that is deserving of the brand. Then I wondered if I had lost track somewhere along the line and if my bias was out of touch with reality and I was being unfair, so I made a point of keeping an eye open the past few days.

I never saw any other brands that were pre 2000 but I saw 5 x Toyota SFA's, 3 x similar shape 2x4 Toyotas (not counting my own) and more than a dozen IFS models, but couldn't verify if they were all pre 2000. Given that the 'Yotas were more popular sellers at the time, this is not altogether surprising - but it still doesn't account for the fact that I saw no old bakkies in the other brands. Perhaps 3 days is not enough to draw a conclusion upon, but it does provide a pointer.

I'll stick with my bias for now while I continue to look around some more.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Mon May 23, 2016 6:20 pm

Andy klink my jy spandeer te veel tyd by Sandton mall ...

HIER mag ons mos maar lief wees vir ONS brand

Stef · Post by **Stef** » Tue May 24, 2016 11:10 am

Well...I would not let my LTD SFA go for less than R100k ...

I don't care what anyone says

It has EFi, OME, Dual BAtt brand new gearbox and only R242k on the clock, original factory stickers inside the fenders still....much better than most IFS's for sale out there....

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Tue May 24, 2016 11:24 am

Stef wrote:Well...I would not let my LTD SFA go for less than R100k ... I don't care what anyone says

It has EFi, OME, Dual BAtt brand new gearbox and only R242k on the clock, original factory stickers inside the fenders still....much better than most IFS's for sale out there....

two hard facts :

- even at 100k, that is not even what you would spend to rig out your new vehicle ...

- in the event of an insurance payout you will hardly get half of that ...