Matroosberg 4x4 being sued

[Mr_B]

Saw this on FB today... interesting... not sure who I side with on this one!

http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nu ... d-20130420" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[george]

This is a difficult one. My fear is that if they win the case then all resort owners will have to upgrade with sign boards and warnings and what not If you go out in nature there is dangers.

I see the pic they showed of the gentleman he looks like he likes to play the fool.So maybe he did something foolish.

[ROOFER]

eish :!: :!:

[Froll]

Not a good situation for resort owners, but surely they would have signs up of being there at your own risk.

[Mud Dog]

Not a good situation for resort owners, but surely they would have signs up of being there at your own risk.

This is almost certainly the case and it's an important legal hedge for a wide spectrum of business owners. If however there is a known hazzard with no form of warning it could still spell negligence on the part of the resort owner, or at the very least, complacency. On the other hand, an adventurous driver that takes on a snow covered mountain should have enough presence of mind to know that there are bound to be some hazzards that are hidden under the snow blanket. If one really thinks about it, there is whole host of defensive and offensive arguments on both sides of this fence, many of which will undoubtedly be aired in court. Depending on what indemity, if any, was signed by the deceased, I fear that the resort owner will be judged to bear some portion of the responsibility.

Time will tell. A sad incident in any event.

[ChrisF]

You sign an indemnity form before entering ....

Many owners may just say the risk is not worth and close the last remaining trails !!!


This is potentially BAD for US !

[Mud Dog]

Yeah, but how is that indemity worded ..... does it have loopholes ......

Agree that it could be bad for us.

[ChrisF]

Andy sadly most indemnity forms are so full of loopholes it is totally worthless, especially to a dedicated advocate .....


the punch line - ONE farmer takes a big knock ..... others lock their gates ......





reminds me of people smoking, with warning stickers on the packets, then running to lawyers when they get sick .....

[pietpetoors]

Accidents do happen. What if it was a hiking trail, must there be a danger sign around every second corner? I think i did the trail first time in 2008 and in my trip report i said " it is an accident waiting to happen". The owners saw my report and asked me to remove it which i did not do, i only reworded my report to sound less harsh

[george]

Accidents do happen. What if it was a hiking trail, must there be a danger sign around every second corner? I think i did the trail first time in 2008 and in my trip report i said " it is an accident waiting to happen". The owners saw my report and asked me to remove it which i did not do, i only reworded my report to sound less harsh

Sjoe thy can call you as a witness

[Mr_B]

For me, seeing that 3 people have been killed in the same manner, from pretty much the same spot, I would have thought it wise and safety concious of the owner/management to put up some sort of warning, whether it be a danger sign post, chain/pole barracade or some other measure.

The fact that they did, to my knowledge, pretty much so nothing does not sit well with me! An idemnity form does not cover safety negligence.

[niclemaitre]

As a regular user of wilderness areas and related activities, I worry about the precedent that is being set here should they win against the farmer, it will open the door to litigation against any land owner who allows access to their land where accidents could happen.

A case in point is Table Mountain, statistically Table Mountain is the most dangerous mountain in South Africa responsible for more accidents and fatalities than any other mountain. Is SANParks liable because people fail to heed signage and walk up the mountain wearing t-shirts, shorts and plakkies with no water, sunscreen or hat on a day where the temperature will reach 40C? One tourist remarked, upon being rescued from a tiny ledge where they had gotten stuck, that they had seen the warning signs telling them to use another route as this one was steep, dangerous and required the use of a rope but "the sign should have been larger".

The farmer at Matroosberg does make you sign a form which does inform of the dangers of slippery ice and frozen snow however my impression of the form (which I have signed many, many times) is that it is insufficient. It doesn't place enough emphasis on the dangers which are numerous. Also, I believe that arriving at the viewpoint, where all these accidents have happened, in a heated, comfortable 4x4 does not prepare you well for the dangers you face. The transition from safety to danger is so abrupt and sudden that you are not aware that it has happened at all which makes you far more likely to be complacent and you are in an area where any mistake will have very serious consequences. If you walk up from the bottom you are far more aware of the objective hazards of the area because you have already experienced the dangers but where the consequences of a mistake are much less; so by the time you reach the top, you are well prepared and ready.

All of this does not absolve the farmer of responsibility. A small fence or even just a few warning signs (which are now in place, after all the deaths) could have saved lives.

Where this breaks down is what do you accept as your level of personal responsibility? The risks that I have personally seen people take on that mountain are ridiculous. People walk far to close to the edge, people hike up very steep slopes with out any gear to help them stop should they fall, the lunatic 4x4 drivers who drive as far as they can up the nearby hill, turn broadside and then come back down, all within meters of a 150m-400m drop. Should the farmer accept responsibility for that?

[pietpetoors]

Agree with you Nic
If the accident was due to badly maintained road or the fact that they allow inexperienced drivers drive up a difficult, slippery trail, I would say nail them.
But this was not due to the 4x4 trail, this was while somebody was walking on a high mountain and your Table Mountain example is a good example.

If they win this case I guess all the current hiking trails that runs over a mountain will be spoiled by a warning sign around every second corner.

If I walk over a road and a bus hits me, my wife can't sue the municipality because they did not put up a warning sign at the exact spot where I crossed the road. I know crossing a road is dangerous and it is my responsibility to do it in a safe way.

[niclemaitre]

If the accident was due to badly maintained road or the fact that they allow inexperienced drivers drive up a difficult, slippery trail, I would say nail them.

I think an accident of that type is coming, Piet. The trail is poorly maintained, otherwise it wouldn't really be a challenge, and as far as I can tell they seem to let everyone and his dog drive up if you have a 4x4. They had an incident a year or so ago where some nut tried the trail in some soft-roader without low range and came seriously short. Since then they have specified a pukka 4x4. Unfortunately owning one doesn't make you a good driver on- or off-road. Also there is no control of what they do when they reach the neck overlooking Groothoekkloof where all the accidents have happened, see what I said in my previous post. In my opinion, the day is coming where a 4x4 full of people will fall over the edge.

[Stef]

Funny that everyone seem to know the death stats of the lookout point, yet they wanted to be warned as well?? Lookout points are dangerous, period, come sunshine or snow. No signs needed. The only thing the owner should possibly have done is to close the trail due to the snow, but the snow is more than likely the reason people go there in the first place...

This oke looks like a clown, and probably one of those "check this..." type drivers as well with little common sense. Possibly didn't walk the obsticle either..

And why wait 4 years? Opportunistic.

[Klong se Pa]

Sy's onlangs weer getroud. Nuwe man is dalk 'n baie slim (lees slinkse) ou? Ek sou reken as ek met my voertuig op enige trial is, die volle verantwoordelikheid ten opsigte van enige voorval by myself lê. Maar ja, dis hartseer vir die ou wat geval het. Wonder as hy kon wat sy kommentaar sou wees.