Optimal rev range for 4y

Jaco Versfeld · Post by **Jaco Versfeld** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:53 pm

Hi There,

What is the optimal rev range for a 4y when driving in town? With the previous owner changing the diff ratios, I struggle a bit with the revs and choosing the correct gears. Is 2000 rpm too slow (engine labors too much)?

Kind Regards,
Jaco

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:10 pm

I ussually go to 3000rpm before changing.
it just feels like it's to slow for the next gear before then.

Danman · Post by **Danman** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:26 pm

I have a standard 4y and I never change below 3000 and almost never above 3500.
I have also looked at fuel consumption and this gives me the best consumption of all the rev ranges I have tried. In town at 7 - 7.5km/l and when I go onto the open road at the same rev range(more towards 3500) I get 8.5 - 9km/l.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:39 pm

Danman wrote:I have a standard 4y and I never change below 3000 and almost never above 3500.
I have also looked at fuel consumption and this gives me the best consumption of all the rev ranges I have tried. In town at 7 - 7.5km/l and when I go onto the open road at the same rev range(more towards 3500) I get 8.5 - 9km/l.

Agreed

I usually drive my mouter by the rev counter alone and live by the 3000rpm rule of thumb.

The 4Y doesn't rev well like its cousin the 3Y

though EFi manages to sqeeze out 5000rpm will remarkable ease

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:50 pm

Dadz Toy BFI wrote: The 4Y doesn't rev well like its cousin the 3Y

though EFi manages to sqeeze out 5000rpm will remarkable ease

Thats not bad for a diesel!

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:08 pm

snipes wrote:Thats not bad for a diesel!

You with the boots, what do you know off diesel

hallo snipes

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:29 pm

Spartan wrote:
snipes wrote:Thats not bad for a diesel!
You with the boots, what do you know off diesel
hallo snipes

please don't get him going Mr.Spartan

the Athenian will start rabbeting on about Mazda TD rubbish

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:26 pm

I see you guys are at it again

I don't pay too much attention to the rev counter with city driving, I also don't rev the motor unneccesarily. You can hear if its screaming or labouring. The 4y has fantastic low end torque which I use to my advantage and cruising along at 2200 rpm she's happy as hell. I get almost 8k/lit in town and between 10 and 11 k/lit on the open road, (that's on the odometer, and not GPS though).

Danman · Post by **Danman** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:04 pm

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:14 am

Spartan wrote:
snipes wrote:Thats not bad for a diesel!
You with the boots, what do you know off diesel

Well I know that the Peugeot 908 HDI won the LeMans 24 Hour this year...

B

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:45 am

Mud Dog wrote:I see you guys are at it again
I don't pay too much attention to the rev counter with city driving, I also don't rev the motor unneccesarily. You can hear if its screaming or labouring. The 4y has fantastic low end torque which I use to my advantage and cruising along at 2200 rpm she's happy as hell. I get almost 8k/lit in town and between 10 and 11 k/lit on the open road, (that's on the odometer, and not GPS though).

this begs the question... does one drive on you optimal torque(Nm) / speed (KW) range.
I do believe the 4y has low torque range, at about 200rpm, but the peak speed range is about 5000rpm.

So when travelling down the N2, with all it's hills (the achillies heel for all 4y's), where does one try to maintain the reve range to keep up momentum?

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:49 am

At 120 km/h I'm doing about 3000 rpm, and she's happy there too and does'nt slow too much on hills unless the load is heavy (like a kudu or two

)

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:53 am

dalkill wrote: this begs the question... does one drive on you optimal torque(Nm) / speed (KW) range.
I do believe the 4y has low torque range, at about 200rpm, but the peak speed range is about 5000rpm.

So when travelling down the N2, with all it's hills (the achilles heel for all 4y's), where does one try to maintain the rev range to keep up momentum?

Shaakir, a 4Y is at its most noisiest at lower revs, say up to 3500rpm

Anything above that takes it into a frequency less audible to the human ear :Geek:

Therefore in this "new territory" your mutter will climb all the hills that the N2 can throw at it without it sounding like you're killing it

(well the concept works for the Atlantis girls anyhow)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:27 am

Post by **JohanM** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:50 pm

I tend to agree to a certain extent here. I drive my 4Y at around 3000 rpm in town when changing gears, but do drive in 5th gear @ 2000rpm which gives me about 71 km/h on the clock which is nice as I am just touching the loud pedal........

When im on the open road I tend to keep between 3400 - 3700 rpm in 5th gear which works out to 120 - 130 km/h. Also when approaching a long uphill i downshift to 4th gear before climbing. I do not put my foot down flat when changing down, I only add a bit more power and climb most hills in and around Gauteng when driving on the open road.

I have found that this makes a comfortable drive and provides best worlds of power, economy and speed. When I overtake sometimes on the single lane roads upshift to the next gear at 5000 - 5500 rpm depending on the conditions.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:22 am

Obviously I have not been around here lately, but Rich I am disappointed in you. You did not even offer Jaco the magic gauge advice.

Jaco get yourself a vacuum gauge installed. If you study that a bit when driving you will learn a few new things about your engine like when t is OK to drive at low RPM and when it is better to shift back (labouring)

The vacuum gauge is a good indicator of the amount of air the engine sucks in (the more air usually means the more fuel) so if the needle shows vacuum dropping away it means you are using lots of fuel. By checking this out while driving you will soon see when your engine is happy at a certain RPM and or you are waisting.

Sometime driving on a highway with lots of continues ups and downs, like a part of the Krugersdorop highway or the N4 between Bronkies and "Swart"bank you may find it to be more economical to simply keep your van in 4th if the general traffic conditions or the load your are hauling don't allow you to drive in your vehicles sweet spot where she can maintain her speed uphills. If your gauge shows too much Zero vacuum conditions when going up shifting a gear back will create more vacuum (use less fuel)

This same principle of good vacuum will also show you if you change gears to early in town. If the vacuum falls away completely after shifting up you probably shifted too soon. You will see its not case of just RPMs anymore but a combination of what gear are you currently in vs the gradient of the surface vs the speed you are driving that will indicate when is a good time. Without even realising it you start to get to know your engine the longer you drive it and then you will realise that the place it feels right to change geras will also feel different as the condition I just described changes, but even still may people are often surprised if the get a vacuum gauge installed.

My neighbour Schalk will also tell you a vacuum gauge is most probably his most important tool he uses in races like the total economy run to determine if you are achieving good economy figures

Jaco Versfeld · Post by **Jaco Versfeld** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:30 pm

Thanks Bennie,

Where can I find a vacuum gauge?

Kind Regards,
Jaco

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:43 pm

Piet Petoors
Waar is daai UIL BADGES.
Dit wat Bennie hier gese het is so waar en n mens leer om baie anders jou ratte te verander as wat jy normaalweg doen, daai vacuum gauge wat hy genoem het is sy gewig in goud werd as jy hom reg gebruik

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:07 pm

Jaco Versfeld wrote:Thanks Bennie,

Where can I find a vacuum gauge?

Kind Regards,
Jaco

Autozone, Midas or Mohammed's Go Fast and or Lload stall at the flea market ( you know the one that sell the vibrating boot-lids too)

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:22 pm

BenHur wrote:My neighbour Schalk will also tell you a vacuum gauge is most probably his most important tool he uses in races like the total economy run to determine if you are achieving good economy figures

Races, what races, the horse races?

Well sounds right for the 4Y, it's about the speed of a horse

We saw THAT at Atlantis

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Nasty, nasty!

Have some compassion for us poor 4y owners ... we can't all do conversions and at least some of us have to remain loyal Toyota 'die-hards'.

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:42 pm

Sorry, but I had to keep my form and be controversial

Nah, the Frod engine is ok, but I will love a Lexus and fuel consumption be d.....

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:17 pm

I had once considered a ford v6 since I thought them to be pretty tough motors. A couple people spoke me out of it at the time with arguments like vehicle resale value dropping with a non original motor ... like teething problems and that those motors had a known issue with welsh plugs leaking at the back of the heads ... dunno how true that was but it put me into re-think mode at the time. I'm still with the original 4Y and power on the open road is still an issue, but I've grown accustomed to it.

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:59 am

I bought the Lux with the motor for dirt cheap probably for just the reasons you mentioned. If I had a 4Y I would never put a Ford V6 in today, there is too many other good options and replacing the 4Y with the Frod lump is sort of staying with 50's technology really. The engine is pretty competent but I never go above 110km/h on the open road anyway but it's nice in the rough to have extra torque easily available.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:55 pm

BenHur wrote:............... Rich I am disappointed in you. You did not even offer Jaco the magic gauge advice.

Jaco get yourself a vacuum gauge installed. If you study that a bit when driving you will learn a few new things about your engine like when t is OK to drive at low RPM and when it is better to shift back (labouring)

The vacuum gauge is a good indicator of the amount of air the engine sucks in (the more air usually means the more fuel) so if the needle shows vacuum dropping away it means you are using lots of fuel. By checking this out while driving you will soon see when your engine is happy at a certain RPM and or you are waisting.

My neighbour Schalk will also tell you a vacuum gauge is most probably his most important tool he uses in races like the total economy run to determine if you are achieving good economy figures

Sorry Bennie I missed this.... :roll:

Dead right; a Vacuum Gauge is Tops

I was really astonished to see how early/late shifting, hills etc... effects the vacuum - taught me a thing or two :shifty:

I bought an Auto Gauge one, Equus are also very good; there's a whole thread on it somewhere in the Archives - Search for "Vacuum Gauge" if your interested enol

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:55 pm

Mud Dog wrote:we can't all do conversions and at least some of us have to remain loyal Toyota 'die-hards'.

Hey hey oomie my Van is n volbloed Toyota, ek het net 2 pistons meer as jy dis al

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:47 am

Yeah, I'd love a nice compact but reliable Toy V6 implant where I would'nt have to alter / change too many things ... preferably to bolt straight on to the existing box or bell.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:03 pm

Mud Dog wrote:Yeah, I'd love a nice compact but reliable Toy V6 implant where I would'nt have to alter / change too many things ... preferably to bolt straight on to the existing box or bell.

Don't know about the V6 but with the 2JZ you just change the bellhousing and install your new power plant

Will look for the photo of that bellhousing, original from it's mother at Toyota no castings and all that suspicious jazz that eat your bearings and so on.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:40 pm

Spartan wrote:
Mud Dog wrote:Yeah, I'd love a nice compact but reliable Toy V6 implant where I would'nt have to alter / change too many things ... preferably to bolt straight on to the existing box or bell.
Don't know about the V6 but with the 2JZ you just change the bellhousing and install your new power plant Will look for the photo of that bellhousing, original from it's mother at Toyota no castings and all that suspicious jazz that eat your bearings and so on.

It's sounding really interesting, tell us more asblf

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:57 pm

En hy pas net so op die stock box, en alles is original Toyota

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:16 pm

What about the spiggot shaft .... long enough? ... too long? .... right diameter for the 2JZ flywheel? ..... pressure plate would have to be 2JZ I assume but what clutch plate? will the splines match? ..... what radiator fan? is there enough space for the standard visco of the 2JZ?

The 2JZ is normal carb, no? .... What about 2JZE?

Questions, questions, questions ......

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:37 am

Mud Dog wrote:What about the spiggot shaft .... long enough?

Pas 100% net die regte pilot bearing insit

Mud Dog wrote:.... right diameter for the 2JZ flywheel?

Koop sommer die 2JZ se eie fly wheel

Mud Dog wrote:..... pressure plate would have to be 2JZ I assume but what clutch plate? will the splines match?

Jy gaan kry n LUK wat net so daar vas bout

Mud Dog wrote: ..... what radiator fan? is there enough space for the standard visco of the 2JZ?

Gebruik elektriese fan's, daar is nie plek vir n visco nie

Mud Dog wrote:The 2JZ is normal carb, no? .... What about 2JZE?

Nee dis inspuitting en die 2JZ wat ek van praat is die GE wat uit die Lexsus GS 300 en Alteza's kom dit is n N/A engin

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:08 am

Hoeveel plek is daar dan vir fan belts op die crank pulley .... is daar plek vir 'n aircon compressor? Brehoort 3 te wees ... alternator / power steering pump / aircon. Battery position moet dan ook omgeruil word, of nie? Daar sal nie meer plek wees vir n donaldson? En dan is daar nog die ECU saga .... ek sou oorspronklik kies, net die bedrading daarvan wat miskein bietjie mooilik nag wees.

Hoe deliver daai enjin so ver dit 'low end torque' betref?

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:33 am

Mud Dog wrote:Hoeveel plek is daar dan vir fan belts op die crank pulley .... is daar plek vir 'n aircon compressor? Brehoort 3 te wees ... alternator / power steering pump / aircon. Battery position moet dan ook omgeruil word, of nie? Daar sal nie meer plek wees vir n donaldson? En dan is daar nog die ECU saga .... ek sou oorspronklik kies, net die bedrading daarvan wat miskein bietjie mooilik nag wees.
Hoe deliver daai enjin so ver dit 'low end torque' betref?

Op die engin gebruik jy net een belt vir alles, my A/C werk ook 100%
Ja jy ruil die batt na die anderkant toe, ek wil nog kyk of n mens nie verby daai een kan kom nie, dalk n ander manifold gebruik van die 1JZ.
Jy kan Dicktator, Go-Tech of Microtech gebruik en hulle is baie betroubaar, infact my bakkie start winter en somer baie beter as enige stock ECU dit kan doen en ek het die beheer oor dit, maar dit is persoonlikke smaak.
Neewat daar is niks aan die bedrading nie, my bakkie lyk of hy so uit die fabriek kom, eintlik sien jy maar min drade.
Die engin is so sterk soos n bees op alle rev ranges.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:45 am

Ok. Dankie vir dit .... en soos Rich altyd sê, .... "Peekchaz assbl.!"

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:43 pm

Jaco

Hoeveel kos so motor omtrent?
Hoeveel kos die hele conversion omtrent?

Evert

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:19 pm

I've been making some enquiries about the 2JZe;

seems that they are quite highly sort after, especially by the Supra guys throwing out their 7M's

so the ones ex Japan with 100K Kms on are fetching high prices still, especially the one I'd love the VVti :Geek:

I'm gonna keep looking though nê

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:37 pm

Evert Deyzel wrote: Hoeveel kos so motor omtrent?
Hoeveel kos die hele conversion omtrent?

Jong ek weet nie wat is die prys deesdae nie ek was n jaar laas in SA, maar jy kyk seker al na so 8.5K vir n motor ek is nie seker nie, Hier is manne wat dalk weet soos Hoppy.
Jong as jy dit doen soos ek gedoen het en alles Toyota gebruik het en nuut gaan koop het al die ditjies en datjies dan kyk jy na n hoop geld ek sal jou se dat ek net al die slips en goed bymekaar kry as ek nou af gaan, ek sal nou Donderdag in SA wees.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:17 pm

Spartan wrote:
Evert Deyzel wrote: Hoeveel kos so motor omtrent?
Hoeveel kos die hele conversion omtrent?
Jong ek weet nie wat is die prys deesdae nie ek was n jaar laas in SA, maar jy kyk seker al na so 8.5K vir n motor ek is nie seker nie, Hier is manne wat dalk weet soos Hoppy.
Jong as jy dit doen soos ek gedoen het en alles Toyota gebruik het en nuut gaan koop het al die ditjies en datjies dan kyk jy na n hoop geld ek sal jou se dat ek net al die slips en goed bymekaar kry as ek nou af gaan, ek sal nou Donderdag in SA wees.

Eeish, could someone please offer me a translasie into Ingris

How much for the Bellhousing

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:27 pm

Jaco's not sure of prices Rich .... been a while since in RSA, but he'll be back here on Thursday. To the best of his recollection the motor was about 8.5 K but he woulod have to look at all his slips when he's here. He bought everything new from the stealers.
Hoppy might have a better idea of current costs.

Translasie klaar!

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:47 pm

Mud Dog wrote:...............
Translasie klaar!

Thanks Oom Andy

I'm very interested in this Motor Conversion, as are you no doubt Andy

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:05 am

Thanks oom, for the translation, sorry for not writing in the english, EISH.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:40 am

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:
Mud Dog wrote:...............
Translasie klaar!

Thanks Oom Andy

I'm very interested in this Motor Conversion, as are you no doubt Andy

Ja Rich, it sounds great ... not too many mods to do the transplant, but I'm a great believer in keeping things standard as far as possible, and right now it's a toss up between something like this or doing an EFI conversion on the 4y. There is also the fuel cosumption factor to consider .... crude oil is on the rise again and looks set to remain high.

Thanks oom, for the translation, sorry for not writing in the english, EISH.

:D

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:20 pm

Mud Dog wrote:

Ja Rich, it sounds great ... not too many mods to do the transplant, but I'm a great believer in keeping things standard as far as possible, and right now it's a toss up between something like this or doing an EFI conversion on the 4y.

You won't get any change out of R12K for EFi Andy, transplant a 2JZe yourself and it can't be more than R15K nê

I'd offer to sell you my 4Ye but If I did a 2JZe transplant it would be in another "vehicle", Dadz will go on the market as is one of these days nê :roll:

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:00 pm

Dadz will go on the market as is one of these days nê

Huh?! .... and you've just done the Mikem thing! .... What's up? :wth:

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:55 pm

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:transplant a 2JZe yourself and it can't be more than R15K nê

Neeeee not in a 100 years you will do a 2JZ GE transplant for 15K

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:09 pm

Spartan wrote:Neeeee not in a 100 years you will do a 2JZ GE transplant for 15K

Jaco - play nice nou boeta

What's required for a transplant, can you put any prices on please

Andy - my Lux is far too old to go under the knife again :roll:

let's face it an SFA Hilux is a poor man's bone shaker enol, but don't tell anyone I said this, I'll deny it :!:

I really want a Prado (box shape-2 Models back) that way I get the leather seats again but with an awful lot more comfort for SWAMBO and the kinders

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:45 am

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:48 am

OK no jokes you look at +- 80K if you want to do a good and reliable job and have a vehicle that does it the first time right every time, I will check the slips when I get back and tell you to the T what it cost me for my conversion. It sounds like a lot but is worth every cent of it. IMO you should get you that Prado and keep the Lux wink:

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:32 am

Spartan wrote:OK no jokes you look at +- 8K if you want to do a good and reliable job wink:

Wow, that's only half as much as I thought :!:

Andy you can spend the balance on a bit of bling for SWAMBO (that expensive Anniversary Present, you've been dodging :shifty: )

Jeepers I think you're right Jaco, I'll rather spend the R80K on a Prado that has been loved and cherished/never been off road/ has a 2JZe motor onboard/has a boot full of hens teeth..........

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:46 pm

SORRY

made a mistake it was 70K the other money were spend on other stuff than the motor. But must say not regretting one moment of it.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:20 pm

Spartan wrote:SORRY made a mistake it was 70K the other money were spend on other stuff than the motor. But must say not regretting one moment of it.

A Break down of Costs Asblf

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:51 am

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:
Spartan wrote:SORRY made a mistake it was 70K the other money were spend on other stuff than the motor. But must say not regretting one moment of it.

A Break down of Costs Asblf

The 70K cost is giving me a nervous breakdown already!

B

(not thinking but nervously biting nails)

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:56 am

Stick to the EFI 4Y Bretton!

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:59 am

Mud Dog wrote:
Stick to the EFI 4Y Bretton!

He's not really a Dutch Man Andy

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:51 pm

Mud Dog wrote:Stick to the EFI 4Y Bretton!

Until he has driven it, then he make a lone on the house to do the conversion

Bloues · Post by **Bloues** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:06 am

PASOP !!!!

We might be in horse race by a 4Y Hilux will always bring you to the "end line"......

Dankie Bennie en ander vir raadsame info.......

ps: sIT VIR DAAI f.o.r.d. enjin miskien ook so gauge op.......hahahahaha - wat kry jy op petrol verbruik......vir intresantheid ?????

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:59 am

Bloues wrote:wat kry jy op petrol verbruik......vir intresantheid ?????

8.6 Km/l as ek nie soos n garage werker ry nie

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:48 am

My Frod gee my so 8.5 na 9 km/l, maar ek ry nooit vinnig nie, rev haar ook nie,dissie nodig nie sy het hope wringkrag.

Bloues · Post by **Bloues** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:59 am

King Rat .... dis impressive om sulke verbruik te kry ........