Which Oil?

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:38 am

I have serviced my hiluxs for years with Castrol Magnetec.
I am thinking about changing to another brand of oil after hearing about stories of sludge built up etc with Castrol oils.
My 2.4 SRX(22R engine) is due for a service in 2 weeks or so.
She has a slight leak on the rear crankshaft seal. :x
I did some research about High Mileage oils.
They have an additve which swells oil seals to reduce leaks? :?
So I was thinking about using CastrolGTX High Mileage or Shell Helix High Mileage.
Otherwise I might try Caltex Delo 400 that everyone raves about.

On my 2700i I was considering changing from Magnatec to a full synthetic like Castrol Edge.

Any comments?

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:32 pm

I use Castrol GTX High Mileage in mine

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:37 pm

In my opinion Castrol products have long ago lost the edge and are now pretty average quality ... nothing special and I steer clear of them. Magnatec was thrown out by Daimler Chrysler more than a year ago after it failed their lab quality checks. :problem: I like the Delo .... Helix is also good.

C'mon Snippy ... where are you, ... this is your favourite topic!

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:39 pm

Castrol have not failed me yet and I have clocked close to if not more than 1 000 000 km's (not in a single car). The highest was 350 000km and the most demanding on the engine was the 189 000 I did in a period just less than 3 years.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:03 pm

Here is some copy and paste info from previous posts:

***********************************

There will be alot of discussion on this topic... I have one major insight to share with all of you...

A bit of background... for many years cars used a flat tappet(flat faced hydraulic lifter) that ran against the cam lobe... this 'flat tappet cam' design has been replace/superseded by the modern roller bearing design... from about 1997 motor vehicle manufacturers lobbied the oil companies to reduce the amounts of anti-wear agents(ZDDP) in motor engine oils, this to reduce emissions and prolong to life of modern day catalytic converters... the problem with this is that the older 'flat tappet cam' engines need this anti wear agent or ZDDP(Zinc dithiophosphate), the ZDDP coats the metal surfaces between the lifter face and cam lobe and so dramatically reduces metal to metal wear at this contact point. With the reduction in ZDDP, the failure rate of flat tappet engine cams has gone through the roof, simply because the modern oil no longer have enough ZDDP for a 'flat tappet cam' engine. A 4Y is a typical example of an engine that can suffer this fate if the incorrect grade of oil is used! To read more about the subject(you can find many more articles on the net!):

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html
http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/c ... index.html
http://www.compcams.com/Base/pdf/FlatTa ... lletin.pdf

Read more about ZDDP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZDDP

So how do you avoid this issue... by selecting the appropriate oil for your engine. Many of the high quality modern oils of today have 70%+ less ZDDP than the oils of the 80s and early 90s(muscle car era) and so are not suitable for flat tappet engines. Overseas it is possible to buy bottles of ZDDP additive that can be added to any oil to get the ZDDP count up, in synthetic and mineral oils... problem is that these additives don't seem to be available in South Africa. So what to do... it is recommended that you look out for the designation CH4 or CI4/CI4plus in the specs when purchasing oil. These oils still have enough ZDDP in them to keep the older engines happy... most good quality diesel oils also carry the CH4/CI4/CI4plus mark, making them usable off the shelf in 'flat tappet cam' engine... to name a few:

Caltex Delo 400
Shell Rotella T 15-40W - can be difficult to find
Shell Rimula R3 X 15-40W - widely available
... I'm sure there are many more...

I am presently using the Shell Rimula oil in my 4Y(I wanted to use Rotella T, but couldn't find it locally), using diesel oils in this type of engine is also useful, where the engine is often used at low rpm over extended periods of time(like on 4x4 trails), this because they offer better low rpm/lower oil pressure protection than some of the modern 'platkar' oils, that are optimised for mid to high rpm/higher oil pressure protection.

***********************************

Ok... that pretty much covers it!

B

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:12 pm

I'm not saying that Castrol is a poor quality oil, but rather that It's not as good as it once was according to reports that I have heard. As I said, Merc's labs rejected Magnatec about a year ago after having been using it for some time prior. Obviously therefore it must have been OK before. Maybe there was a change in the formulation. Either way, I would prefer to use something that their labs recommend, like Helix or Delo.

What is the feeling of others on the subject of Castrol products?

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:01 pm

I think that after reading that article I will opt for Shell Rimula with the next oil change

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:12 pm

CasKru wrote:I think that after reading that article I will opt for Shell Rimula with the next oil change

Cassie, in order of preference:

Shella Rotella T (not TX please)
Caltex Delo 400 (not Gold)
Shell Rimula

The only reason I am using Rimula is because I couldn't find the other 2 at the time!

B

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:19 pm

snipes wrote:
CasKru wrote:I think that after reading that article I will opt for Shell Rimula with the next oil change
Cassie, in order of preference:

Shella Rotella T (not TX please)
Caltex Delo 400 (not Gold)
Shell Rimula

The only reason I am using Rimula is because I couldn't find the other 2 at the time!

B

Thanks Bretton. Do you think it might actually fractionally dampen the sound coming from within the tappet cover?

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:21 pm

I think that after reading that article I will opt for Shell Rimula with the next oil change

I also think you'd be on a better track, maybe I should try it too, but I've used Delo for a while now and I'd better stick to it. Better not to mix & match when topping up

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:30 pm

I have narrowed it down to 2 oils for the 2.4SRX either Shell Helix High Mileage or Caltex Delo 400.

On the 2700i I'll try Castrol Edge next time I service her!

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:31 pm

Bretton, Which of these is the one you referred to?

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:38 pm

CasKru wrote:Thanks Bretton. Do you think it might actually fractionally dampen the sound coming from within the tappet cover?

In all honesty I don't know... my experience has been that even with cheaper oils the engine quietens down a bit after an oil change, because the oil viscosity is 100%, but over time the cheaper oils tend to break down, and the noise returns...

My engine is pretty quiet for a brospeed spec version, engines with cut cams are almost always a bit noisy on the lifter side, probably due to the extra clearance between lifter and cam lobe face. A good quality oil will never correct a faulty/worn lifter, it may hide the noise for a while though!

B

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:43 pm

CasKru wrote:Bretton, Which of these is the one you referred to?

Cassie, I am using the last one in the list, Rimula X 15w-40w... IIRC the can says X3 on it.

It's graded as a diesel oil, but read the can, suitable for any diesel/gasoline engine...

B

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:50 pm

snipes wrote:
CasKru wrote:Bretton, Which of these is the one you referred to?
Cassie, I am using the last one in the list, Rimula X 15w-40w... IIRC the can says X3 on it.

It's graded as a diesel oil, but read the can, suitable for any diesel/gasoline engine...

B

According to the Shell web site Rotella is not available in SA at all

Thanks for the info :)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:55 pm

A correction... I am using Shell Rimula R3 X... just to confuse matters further...

More info:
http://www.shell.com/static/global/down ... h4_dh1.pdf

B 8 )

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:06 pm

B[/quote]
Thanks Bretton. Do you think it might actually fractionally dampen the sound coming from within the tappet cover?[/quote]

Cassie I also had tappet noise issues(drove me crazy :evil: ) which I later found out on a website on 22R tappet adjustment was that I was tightening the tappet cover down to tight :roll: .(some guys actually recommend tightening the tappet cover with the engine running)

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:11 pm

GTO wrote:
Thanks Bretton. Do you think it might actually fractionally dampen the sound coming from within the tappet cover?
Cassie I also had tappet noise issues(drove me crazy :evil: ) which I later found out on a website on 22R tappet adjustment was that I was tightening the tappet cover down to tight :roll: .(some guys actually recommend tightening the tappet cover with the engine running)

mmmmmhhhh.... Makes sort off sence cause I'm usaully one of the guys that tightens it till it strips and then a halve a turn back :evil:

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:17 pm

Hey Cassie,

I only noticed now, you in Rynfield, I visited my sister-in-law over Christmas, she lives on a small holding just outside of Benoni, I'll probably be visiting again Christmas this year...

B

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:47 pm

snipes wrote:Hey Cassie,

I only noticed now, you in Rynfield, I visited my sister-in-law over Christmas, she lives on a small holding just outside of Benoni, I'll probably be visiting again Christmas this year...

B

And I was home over Christmas :)

Everybody knows where the Bunnypark is. Well I live about as far from there as a Land rover can leave a trail of oil :)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:02 pm

Oh... drove past the BunnyPark at least once a day for the week I was there...

B

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:16 pm

snipes wrote:Oh... drove past the BunnyPark at least once a day for the week I was there...

B

Mmhhh... I think you actually stopped there every time

Do you know where the Fire Station is?

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:27 pm

Yes I think so... no we didn't go to the bunny farm, kids rather wanted to go to da zoo!

I remember some of age home next to the fire station... you stay there?

B

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:31 pm

snipes wrote:Yes I think so... no we didn't go to the bunny farm, kids rather wanted to go to da zoo!

I remember some of age home next to the fire station... you stay there?

B

Good guess but no :)

Let's put it this way. I can sometimes year the Fire Engines if they get going from there :)

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:34 pm

Cassie check these links:

http://www.yotatech.com/f115/22r-valve- ... se-142630/

http://forums.fourwheeler.com/70/643329 ... index.html

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:39 pm

GTO wrote:Cassie check these links:

http://www.yotatech.com/f115/22r-valve- ... se-142630/

http://forums.fourwheeler.com/70/643329 ... index.html

Thanks

Guess what I'm doing this weekend :)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:46 pm

Cassie, get SWAMBO to tighten the bolts!

B

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:54 pm

Cassie I'll have a look tonight for the 22R valve clearance adjustment article I got off the net a while ago and post the link tomorrow!(If I can find it :roll: )

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:09 pm

GTO wrote:Cassie I'll have a look tonight for the 22R valve clearance adjustment article I got off the net a while ago and post the link tomorrow!(If I can find it :roll: )

Thanks. I've got a manual at home. Maybe I can compare the two figures. It take it a 22RE and 22R should have the same clearances.

snipes wrote:Cassie, get SWAMBO to tighten the bolts!
B

Is this before or after I angered her?!

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:30 pm

Overtightening the tappet cover then results in the rockers actually touching the cover, it seems :wth:

. That would be a design flaw in my book .... so unlike Toyota! Looks like you might have to replace the tapet cover gasket if it's compressed too far.

Harold · Post by **Harold** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:18 pm

I'm now am befuddled; so I'll stick to Castrol Hi-milage, which I have been using for many years.
Over 300,000 on the clock on my 1998 22R motor - so it can't be that bad?

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:44 pm

Harold wrote:I'm now am befuddled; so I'll stick to Castrol Hi-milage, which I have been using for many years.
Over 300,000 on the clock on my 1998 22R motor - so it can't be that bad?

Stick with your recipe for success Harold

Sometimes the Forum Fundies get a bit carried away; it's not Rocket Science mos..... :roll:

R

Toybox · Post by **Toybox** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:49 pm

So forum fundi's and oil guru's; what would you reccommend to use in a lexus v8?

AFAIK the manual says to use API SG, ECII 5W-30 or 10W-30...

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:04 pm

AFAIK the manual says to use API SG, ECII 5W-30 or 10W-30...

:wth:

No man!!! .... You must put OIL in there!!!

ravenvonmolendorff · Post by **ravenvonmolendorff** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:34 pm

Hello guys

What will be your opinion on Havoline 20w50 for my 22R

Thanks André

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:57 am

My opinion? A good quality oil, but not premium. Nothing wrong with it, but it's worth spending the few extra rands on Delo (also a Caltex product)

Post by **CasKru** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:18 am

Mud Dog wrote:Overtightening the tappet cover then results in the rockers actually touching the cover, it seems :wth: . That would be a design flaw in my book .... so unlike Toyota! Looks like you might have to replace the tapet cover gasket if it's compressed too far.

I'll replaced it when I did the timing chain :)

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:21 am

Cassie here the link:

http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1i/bl810i.htm

Take note of the Caution at the end of the article.

My Gregorys workshop manual says nothing about over tightening the tappet cover nuts!

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:26 am

What about Caltex Delo 400 in my 3RZ?

Or should I rather go for Edge?

Someone said on another forum that if you switch to a synthetic you should flush the engine first?

Post by **george** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:03 am

I use to use about a pint of oil every2-3 tanks on my 4Y.I have now change to Delo 400 and after 2 tanks the level have not dropped

Will keep you posted

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:09 am

I love my Synthetic Super Syrup 5w 40

\

Dadz hasn't used a drop since switching and cold starting is 100's

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:12 am

Very interesting George. Yes, please keep us posted. 8 )

P.S.
Hows it going with the abstinence?

Post by **george** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:38 am

Hows it going with the abstinence?

Sorry bad reception,your line is breaking up can not hear you

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:46 am

I like Total's oil products! Remember once you've used synthetic oil in an engine, you cannot go back to mineral based oil... and you probably won't want to!

B

Toybox · Post by **Toybox** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:18 am

Any thoughts on oil for the Lex Snipes?

I've been using Shell Havoline Energy, but I'm not sure if this is the best cost/quality trade-off I can get...

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:34 am

Toybox wrote:Any thoughts on oil for the Lex Snipes?

I've been using Shell Havoline Energy, but I'm not sure if this is the best cost/quality trade-off I can get...

Jonathan I am not knowledgable on the lexus v8... but I'd say with such a powerful motor, buy the best oil you can afford... a good synthetic would be a good choice... like the Total Quartz 9000 Richard uses... that conversion costs a far penny, so the use of an expensive oil would not be inappropriate! I think lexus V8 uses roller bearing against the cam lobes and therefore doesn't have the same issues the 4Y has, with it's flat tappets.

Off-topic jeepers the weather is miserable in Cape Town... wet very windy and vvvvvery cold!

B (shiver shiver)

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:10 am

Off-topic jeepers the weather is miserable in Cape Town... wet very windy and vvvvvery cold!

No wonder the Kaapies are so sluggish to respond on the forum this morning ... brain freeze!

Continuing off topic for a sec, ... beautiful warm sunny weather in E.L. just a little tad windy. 8 )

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:51 pm

Mud Dog wrote:
Off-topic jeepers the weather is miserable in Cape Town... wet very windy and vvvvvery cold!
No wonder the Kaapies are so sluggish to respond on the forum this morning ... brain freeze!

Continuing off topic for a sec, ... beautiful warm sunny weather in E.L. just a little tad windy. 8 )

The Storms knocked out our very age-ed mains grid at 9am and have just come back, I've been crawling the walls and answering a very busy cellphone with the standard line:

"I'm an Electrician NOT a MAGICIAN people" :x ......

Nice to be back hey....

ravenvonmolendorff · Post by **ravenvonmolendorff** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:51 pm

Thanks Andy ,

Is there any particular Delo oil that i need to use for my Hilux, has Km270 000 on the clock ,and at which store can i buy it? 22r?

André

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:20 pm

Andre, the one to get is Caltex Delo 400... I'm pretty sure Caltex service stations will sell it, and I've seen it at Trade Centre... George, where did u find it

B

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:31 pm

Game sometimes have it (and Helix as well) on their shelves.

Harold · Post by **Harold** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:39 pm

It is obvious that oil is a personal preference.
The engine oil suppliers must produce the best otherwise they would quickly be out of business.

Maybe the qustion should be - what is a bad oil?

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:48 pm

Maybe the qustion should be - what is a bad oil?

Mid-s Gold

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:22 pm

Many years ago my dad used to buy 'Honey Lube' 20-50w for his merc at the PnP Hypermarket... I was still a laaitjie and even then I knew that stuff was sh1te... I even dared to tell him so once... of course he didn't take it well!

I'm also not fond of helix 20-50w...

B

Evert Deyzel · Post by **Evert Deyzel** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:56 pm

The mech at barloworld toyota in garsfontein says that they use casrtol oil in the cars when they service them.
What do you guys think about that?
And what do you think about the "new" toyota oils?

Evert

Post by **george** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:10 am

I got my Delo 400 at Midas in Bellville.Not the one in Voortrekker but the one close to Toys are US/Sleazers

I paid R210 for 5 liters.

ismail · Post by **ismail** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:52 pm

Bretton, if you dont mind me asking why did you say after using synthetic oil you cant go back to mineral based oil??? Im using castrol edge 5w40 i think in my 2700i for the last 40k km and gees its sweet but also because i scored hypermarket made a stuff up and priced it at the magnetec price so i bought like 20l of the stuff but now for my next service was thinking to go back to magnetec cause its like half the price.

Ismail

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:12 am

Moenie Wori Ismail, Castrol Edge is not a true Synthetic, just "synthetic technology" which is a bit like the term "leather touch" pvc. :Geek:

ismail · Post by **ismail** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:24 am

you serious and the edge cost like R360 for 5l, gonna go back to magnatec in the 2700i then.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:33 pm

ismail wrote:you serious and the edge cost like R360 for 5l, gonna go back to magnatec in the 2700i then.

The fully synthetic I switched to (Synth Oil) is R185 a litre wholesale, anything cheaper is just "synthetic technology". :Geek:

Ps.. Flushing is not necessary, you can add fully synthetic oil in to Mineral oil.

R