ECUs for 7M engines (Split from the Seatbelt Topic)

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:38 pm

Hi 7MGTE

Welcome to the forum. I was wondering when you are going to start posting on the forum, since the other day already when I enabled your account. I am also in PTA and have a Lux with a 7Mge engine but the head is busted at this stage. But I have decided to rather just get another engine.

But for now time and resources(spelled $$$) is a bit of a problem so it has been standing since May already.

I would love to see pictures of your van and maybe get together some time to steal some ideas from your conversion as I want to make some improvements on mine this time around.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:44 pm

Hi Guys, and Ben,

Thanks for the advice, I will check if the holes are there. Are we talking shoulder seat belts? Thanks for the advice Piet, but I plan on buying new ones anyway, as it is for the precious little ones.

Anyway, Ben, according to the powers that be on the WWW, the 7MGE and 7MGTE engines had one major flaw, which was head gasket failure after roughly 80,000 miles (regardless of how it was driven). The reason for this was that Toyota accidentally (or maybe they just figured the car would be out of warranty by then) used the wrong torque figure when torqueing the head for the first time (63). The correct torque figure is closer to 105.

After reading this, and of course having already bought mine, I decided to change the head gasket anyway as a precautionary measure. And when they opened up, the evidence was there that the head gasket was starting to blow. It still had the original headgasket. I am now fitting a performance gasket, and sommer having the cambelt replaced as well. Apparently, once the correct gasket and torque figure is used, these engines are bullet-proof. I am also removing the standard Toyota management system as it comes with an airflow metre that might just decide to die somewhere in Botswana. I was told that Mr. Turbo works well, and that it doesn't use an airflow metre. I am of course doing all of this to make my cabby super reliable.

I will load up some pics as soon as I have it back from its general check-up.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:16 pm

We must definably get together. Some advice. Stay away from Mr Turbo. I have one and could never get the timing adjusted in such a way that to get it to stop pinging when I was pulling away from under a thousand RPM under heavy load. MR Turbo is good for engines used for racing but not so much for normal civilised driving and slow off road applications.

I am investigating all the options and at this stage it looks like the Dicktator is the best of the "cheap" aftermarket ECUs available but it still lacks 2 inputs I would like to use. The one is an connection for the Knock Sensor and the other for the Lambda Sensor. The Mr Turbo has a Lambda connection but it does not have a proper idle controller. The Dicktator does have an output that is designed to drive a t wire idling valve but the Toy engines uses a 6 wire Stepper motor for idling control. A guy I know who also has a 7MGE motor built his own stepper controller that uses water temp to set control the stepper motor using a PIC IC. He then later made me one as well. I am sure the he would be able to convert this controller to use the outputs from the Dicktator to control the idling valve using the current engine RPM as a reference rather then water temperature.

I have a original 7MGE ECU but can also not find a MAF sensor at any of the engine importers. I would prefer to use it but at over R 5K for a MAF compared to R 2K for a Dicktator system it does not make financial sence

My head actually was damaged due to the incompetence of the panel beater that repaired the van after an accident and completely messed up my radiator. I received it back from them with the HG stuffed. They paid to have it repaired but after that the engine was never the same until it finally died with a crack in the head behind the one valve. I believe it was there since I received it back from the HG repair but that it just grew until it finally gave properly.

That is why I decided rather just to get a new machine at the engine importers and replace the current one . But I will re-torgue the head to the recommended 95NM instead of the Toy Spec of 78 as the guys on the Supra forums recommend.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:08 am

Howzit Ben,

I just phoned up the guy who is looking after my cabbie, and he is more than willing to fit a Dictator - as he does both, but he still recommends Mr. Turbo. The problem with Dictator (allegedly) is that it constantly re-programmes itself (like you say, using lambda sensors and what-not), so much so that you should have it dyno tuned every three weeks. Apparently every second tjommie can work on Mr. Turbo if need be, while the Dictator specialists sits at NASA. He has already removed seven Dictator systems from conversions due to this problem.

He is adament that his own 7MGTE conversion (5 years old) never needs tuning. Maybe he can also programme yours when you are ready.

I am removing the standard Toyota managent system because of the following:

- The standard management needs a speed sensor that is built into the standard supra instrument cluster. The hilux doesn't have this.
- The standard management cannot speak to the Hilux rev counter, so no rpm indication.
- The airflow metres (which inevitably break, even on new cars) are hellishly expensive to replace, and will leave your karretjie limping around if this happens.
- It limits performance due to the missing speed sensor.

Will keep you updated...

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:25 pm

Its funny that your guy does not like the Dicktator. All the engine importers I have spoken so far when asking them about the origional MAF says to use Dicktator.

My neighbor Schalk from Dyno logic also installs both systems and he prefers the Dicktator just as a few other guys I spoke to who is in this business.

Schalk just last week showed me a Landrover Defender (V8) where he replaced the Mr Turbo in favour of the Dicktator. The reason was that the Dictator can via a small external adaptor use the original Magnetic Distributor pick-up (like Toy also uses) where the Mr Turbo can only work on an optical or hall pick up. Then you have to get your Dizzy converted and this seems to be the root of many problems as the guys like Spitronics use sub standard PC components that is not designed to operate at the heat levels inside your engine. I too will chuck my modified dizzy for an origional one as I do not want to be left stranded due to a dizzy failing.

Schalk has a Mr Turbo installed in his own Tredia Turbo, a SAC uni-chip in his Maxima with a 300ZX Turbo motor in and he still says he prefers the Dictator. The programming on the Dicktator is done just the same as Mr Turbo via your laptop and the configuration is also backed up on your Hard Drive so you do not need to re-dyno every time. But the programming and operation of the Dictator is just so much more refined compared to the Mr Turbo.

Be warned that when you chuck your origional ECU for an aftermarket one it is going to be much more raw in operation then the origional, and for that reason I believe the Dicktator can be better refined.

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:52 pm

With our 7MGE we have not experienced any troubles or problems, it has the std Cressida engine and system fitted, the rev counter does work and is correct, once we get it going again will post some more info under The TOY Project, we have not touched the vehicle or done anything for over 5 months now, but the automatic gearbox and the transfer case have been completely overhauled, at the same time a Marlin Crawler kit was also incorperated into the system.

Not a question of money, more of having the time to carry on, however Rome was not built in a year.

I have this saying, "The longer it takes the longer it will last"

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:29 pm

7MGTE

Fisrt of all don't you have a real name that we can call you?

I see that on the Mr Turbo they sell VW compatible airflow meters for about R750. If you get the one that is used on a VR6 it should have a big enough inside diameter to provide enought air flowing through it (I hope). Then maybe one can use a SAC unichip to get it calibrated to the Toy ECU.

What is this speed sensor that you are refering to? Have you got any details regarding it? I know that the SAC unichip can be programmed to sort out all sorts of issues with it so maybe it can also sort that problem out for you.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:46 pm

Hi Dawid,

Thank you for the details. I will get in contact with them tomorrow. Much appreciated. Can you tell me if it will be a set of shoulder belts, or just airline type abdomen belts?

Bennie, my name is Ewald and I stay in Montana Park. I have actually decided to go with a dicktator unit on your recommendation. The speed sensor that I refer to is supposedly part of the supra instrument cluster, also, there should be a boost gauge that also talks to the ECU, which is not present in my cabbie. At the moment I want to steer away from too many different (expensive) parts (airflow, etc), and go with something simple like the dicktator.

I will hopefully have my car back next week sometime, so will let you know then.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:23 pm

Ewald

I am in Doornpport so I guess we are almost neighbors.

I had a long interesting discussion with Chris from Dicktator (his details is on their webpage) today.

He says that the reason they do not do Lamba sensor on the Dicktator is that the variances on the different modules are to different and that most of the units like Mr Turbo does not fair very well on Lambda corrrections in anycase. He explained that they do measure air pressure together with air temperature and can thus do altitude correcction in anycase.

The idle controller they use is a VW golf 2 wire idle control valve that is controlled by varying the amplutude with on a 300hz wave. So the one option would be to install a Golf idle vale into the existing idle control setup on tour manifold or else I will speak to my buddy who built my existing idle controller and see if we can modify it to work with the Dicktator.

Does your engine run on a single distributor set-up or a multi-coil wasted spark set-up? He reckons that the wasted spark set-up would provide better spark for Turbo engines especially if you turn up the boost over 1 bar. On my normal aspirated set-up a single coil dizzy set-up is fine but he reckons I get an original Toyota Igniter and coil for better spark rather then using an after market coil and Igniter.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:22 pm

I split these posts away from the seatbelt topic so that the different discussions do not get mixed up too much.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:25 am

Howzit Bennie,

I have a wasted spark setup with three twin coil packs. So the Dicktator should work well. I am however keeping my standard ECU and Airflow meter just in case. Does the Dicktator not have an idling function? I am getting worried here. Maybe I should rather stick with my standard management and rather try to sort out whatever is missing there...

Did you know that Spitronics have their own management system now? Their system for the Lexus V8 is complete and ready for use, and apparently it uses a sequential firing programme that helps in bringing down ful consumption tremendously. They are still working on the six cylinder system.

It all seems rather confusing and complicated...

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:06 pm

Howzit again Bennie,

I have spent most of my Saturday now trying to find answers on the WWW, and my answer seems clear. According to http://www.Supracharged.com "Using the speed sensor is neccesary. This will greatly effect power and gas mileage." The speed sensor in question only comes in the Supra instrument cluster, so this could prove to be a problem that will never go away, as calibration would always be an issue. That is why I decided to do away with the Toyota ECU in the first place, as it just takes away the power if it is not happy. I don't know if it would be possible to keep it happy in a Hilux. There is nothing wrong with my Airflow meter yet, but too many other things are missing for the ECU to be happy. Also, the Toyota ECU does not work with a plug and play system.

The aftermarket route seems to be my only option...

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:51 pm

Ewald

The Dicktator does have an idle control but it is designed to work a 2 wire unit, so you will either have to change replace the existing one with the 2 wire Golf one or get an interface that will marry up the two systems. That is what I would prefer to do, but I have not heard anything form my friend yet.

Maybe get a quote from my neighbour Schalk from DynoLogic (082 880 6116) to install the Dicktator for you. He can also dyno it for you properly.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:12 pm

Howzit Bennie,

My Hilux is almost complete after disassembling almost everything. Supra-Tech have now rebuilt the intercooler system with new intercooler and stainless steel boost pipes, added an aftermarket dumpvalve, replaced the head gasket (R 2,500 triple layered steel), replaced cambelt, replaced stock Toyota radiator with BMW 745i aluminium radiator and pressure bottle, rebuilt a new air intake system (using a boxed cone that gets cold air from vents on the side), and they are almost ready to start fiddeling with the management.

As you know, Mr. Turbo is no longer and option for me. I am also leaning away from Dicktator, as I am hearing good things about the new Spitronic management system for the Lexus V8s. Apparently the 7M-GE system (based on the lexus version) is already up and running, and the 7M-GTE (with coil packs) system is being tested. I am now leaning towards this option, but I am unsure about an unproven system. Danie from Supra-Tech knows Peet, the developer of the Spitronics system quite well, and we will maybe first go and chat to him about. The Spitronic system apparently also incorporates a sequential distribution solution that works like most modern OE ECU's - ie. only supplies fuel when needed, and not all the time. This should drastically reduce fuel consumption, but at the end of the day I am more worried about reliability. Will keep you updated.

Zantus · Post by **Zantus** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:11 pm

Ewald, I was about to order the Spitronics system for my V8, and then I heard a rumour that although the Spitronics system is being sold, it's not yet fully developed and there are still a few bugs that need to be worked out. That to me is a big problem. I know they will help if there are problems, but I'm in PE and that would mean a few hundred bucks in courier costs and a few days of my bakkie standing, everytime I need something sorted.
I was told Perfect Power has the same features as the Spitronics, but costs bout R6K instead of R3700 for the Spitronics unit.
What do you guys think, which way must I go???

leonbrink · Post by **leonbrink** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:30 pm

Zantus wrote:Ewald, I was about to order the Spitronics system for my V8, and then I heard a rumour that although the Spitronics system is being sold, it's not yet fully developed and there are still a few bugs that need to be worked out. That to me is a big problem. I know they will help if there are problems, but I'm in PE and that would mean a few hundred bucks in courier costs and a few days of my bakkie standing, everytime I need something sorted.
I was told Perfect Power has the same features as the Spitronics, but costs bout R6K instead of R3700 for the Spitronics unit.
What do you guys think, which way must I go???

I am no expert at all, so I can't really give an opinion but, were at Lexus Brooklyn this morning for some work and the service advisor there showed me a SFA with a Lexus motor. The guy brought it in because of faulty electronics. When I looked through the side window my eye caught the electronics on the floor. All Spitronics. Guy apparently spent close to 20K already on electronics and still not fixed.
Hope this is of some use deciding on a ECU.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:24 pm

So far I also herd more bad then good about Spitronics. I found this forum last night (http://www.msx.co.za/forum/index.php) and posted a question there but it does not seem to busy a forum since no one answered my questions yet. But the unit looks very capable so I guess price would determine if it is worth while

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:15 pm

aah.... thank you for not confusing the s**t out of me guys, much appreciated. I now know for sure what to get...

According to your information, I should be fine with either one or the other, or not at all. Now if we were to choose the latter of the alternatives available, we would definitely find some sort of a result. It is however very much dependend on the choice of ECU, as to not confuse the issue. It has become crystal clear that neither one or the other should or would be 100% unreliable, except when faced with reliability. It is clear now which management system to choose, although the correct decision might be clouded by the incorrect choice.

Thanks for this....

PS: I'm starting to think a 4Y engine would be the best....

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:05 pm

PS: I'm starting to think a 4Y engine would be the best....

But of course!

The rest of your conversation above is totally above my comprehension... or is it?

Over and above all this, how difficult is it to program these ECU's? Can a suitably computer/software literate person not do so himself with the necessary programming kit? As far as the actual electronics goes, the discrete components are reliable enough, but the way everything is constructed, especially in regard to tolerances and heat dissipation, is where major problems can lie.

-F_D

Zantus · Post by **Zantus** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:40 pm

The programming is the easy bit, finding something that can work with all the engine's original features is another story!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:10 pm

Ewalt

One than that I can tell you for cetain is DONT get Mr Turbo. So far I have not received any feedback on my post on the MSX forum but if their units are one of the R 10kish units compared to the >R3K units it would not be a consideration for me.

The only advantage that I can see the MSX has over Dicktator is the Lambda and Knock sensor input, but those inputs are not worth paying more than R1K or so extra for the ECU so in that case my choice will be Dicktator. I am almost 90% sure on buying the Dicktator and effective Lambda and Knock sensor integration was the only reason why I would consider something else but it is not a show stopper.

Lambda censors typically only correct the mixture below 30% throttle and knock sensors only come into play when you labour the engine too much and it ping. With decent mapping of your engine the effect of not having them would be minimal.

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:35 am

Hi all the lamda probe on any fuel injection engine is to try and keep the mixture as close to what is called Lamda 1 which is 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel and this paired with a good catalytic converter should reduce the imisions, however with our poor quality fuel this is near imposible and this results in a high out put of NOx from the catalitic converter. And eventualy the Cats get blocked or contaminated. My point is if you are trying to fit a engine that was fitted with a cat and lamda probe to a vechile like the Hilux I would strongly sugest finding a ECU that can work around the lamda issue.

The most important requirements for fuel and spark in a fully electronic setup are
1.intake air mass
2.intake air temp
3.throttle position
4.engine temp
5.a TD signal and for Digital management TD and incramental signal
6.road speed signal

A knock sensor is only required if the engine is going to need knock control and this will only hapen under exstreme load or when the ignition timing is to far advanced for the situation. Knock control only works if the ecu has a way of retarding the ignition timing and for this one needs to have a solid state ignition with seprate coils for each cylinder so you can not have a dizzi running of a crank or camshaft unless the ECU has a way of retarding the timing or a high tention dizzi is fitted. Now I am not familiar with the 7MGE motor or the Lexus V8 so I am not sure how they work.

But in my opinion if you dont have the seprate coil setup or a high tention dizzi then knock control is not needed.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:04 am

OK, so if I were to take an ideal mixture ratio of 14.7 to 1, and divide the wasted spark by the equivalent of the pie, and then carry the one...HUH?!?!?

I think I'll just leave it up to the pro's...

I have now finally decided to go with the Dicktator - final!

Will let you know next week how it works.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:01 am

Justin

I hear what you say about the Lambda but as far as I understood it, a closed loop lambda control circuit tries to keep maintain your engine's CO levels which can improve economy to a small degree.

Yes, I need the timing adjustment that a knock sensor provides since it is exactly the â€œextreme load" conditions that you mentioned that cause my engine to ping.

Imagine me starting to climb a steep hill or obstacle at about 800RPM in Second Low Range. Once the rear wheels are up on the incline and it becomes steeper, the load increases significantly. I do not want to storm this obstacle at high speed but rather enjoy crawling it out in a more controlled manner in which I can use the engines torque to my advantage and keep the power to the wheels balanced in such a way to limit wheel spin. Now as the load increase, I need to press down on the throttle to keep the engine from stalling. Now in these cases of running under a 1000RPM at between half to full throttle the engine ping badly and that is where I hope the knock sensor would help.

All these aftermarket ECUs use a static Dizzy and they adjust the timing electronically. So even if you do have a dizzy the input from a knock sensor should be able tell the ECU to retard the timing when needed.

Let me go back one-step. The reason why we use these aftermarket ECUs is to get rid of Mass Airflow sensors, which are very expensive and unreliable. All these ECUs use MAP sensors to measure the Manifold Absolute Pressure after the throttle body instead of a MAF and the engine throttle position is then determined via the manifold pressure i.e. at -7-8 bar your throttle will be closed completely. At 0 bar ( normal aspirated engine) the throttle will be fully open. The wiring of the TPS is optional and is uses only for things like fuel cut off , NOS control etc.

So, what you do when you initially install the system is to use a timing light to index/calibrate the dizzy by adjusting it to a position where the timing lightâ€™s reading corresponds with the readout on the ECU software. Once done you lock the dizzy and never adjust it again. All timing adjustments are now made on via the ECU software

Now with the Mr Turbo you can only adjustment the timing according to the RPM and the advance retard setting based on the MAP reading (indicating throttle position).

Thus if I adjust the timing correctly according to RPM and the A&R settings based on normal driving conditions the delta of the two settings will give you the right timing under normal driving conditions. In these instances at low RPM, your throttle will be opened small causing the MAP to be tending towards the -9bar side of the scale. With higher RPMs the throttle will be opened big causing the MAP value to be tending towards 0 Bar, on a normally aspirated engine, or to +3 Bar on a turbo/supercharged engine deepening on how much your boost is. This is OK for most applications, but in my crawling situation explained above the timing becomes way to fast and the engine ping.

The Dicktatorâ€™s way of working is much better. You can set individual A&R settings for each individual adjustable rev interval/bar in the ECU software.

Thus you can set the A&R for RPM values between 250-750 RPM another set of A&R values for 750-1500RPM etc. And with its interpolation feature that the Mr Turbo also lacks it will automatically calculate infinite setting adjustments between these different fixes values so that when the load or RPM increases and the software changes from the one range of settings to the next the transition is smooth.

With Mr Turbo these setting adjustments are not interpolated and if you drive at this critical point where the switch over from one RPM bar to the next happen it is quite harsh if the values between the 2 fields differ a lot and you can experience a bit of jerking on the engine as well.

So if I can not get a ECU which engine control algorithms are designed as well as Dictator and it has a knock sensor at an affordable price I would be glad, but if not Dicktator will be my choice and it should work 99% OK according to my special requirement. It is just that I like my conversion to be up at the same standard of a factory fitted installation or even better with as little as possible rawness/coarseness in its operation.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:32 am

Howzit Bennie,

Thanks for the above!! I now really feel much better about the Dicktator.

Will the standard Toyota ECU and MAF for the 7MGTE engine work on your 7MGE engine? If so, you can try it on your car. It may be just what you are looking for.

It cannot work for the Turbo version in the Hilux due to the missing sensors that it needs, but it may work for you.

Let me know...

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:52 am

The MAF may work but I do not think the ECU would work as the NA 7MGE uses a single coil and dizzy setup instead of the multi coil wasted spark setup your engine use. You will also use the Dicktator Wasted Spark unit (http://www.dicktator.co.za/ and click on the products tab) where I will be using the Dicktator standard unit. But I do have a Toyota 7MGE ECU that I picked up for R 200 at a engine importer's shop. It was laying in a box on the bottom of a shelf full of bits and pieces. But I am not sure if it is working, I might have to get it fixed up first. And I will have to build wire it up manually as well as I did not get a harness. So ja how much would persuade you to part with the MAF?

Coming to think of it you will also not be able to use Mr Turbo to control the ignition system on your van since Mr Turbo can not control a multi coil setup, so you will have to use a combined system like Zantus has for his Lexus engine which comprise of a Mr Turbo fuel only system for the EFI and a Spitronic firing module for the ignition system. My only question is: How good is the interoperability/integrability of these two systems? Is the possible lack of intercommunication between these two systems not the cause of some of the problems that guys running this setup has?

It might be similar to the issue we have in the voice and data networking world. Even though you can build up a system using different vendor's technologies, a single vendor system is always much better and works more efficiently without any integration head aches.

Zantus · Post by **Zantus** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:01 am

benhur wrote:"My only question is: How good is the interoperability/integrability of these two systems?"

Not good at all!!!!

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:56 pm

You are of course 100% correct Ben, the Mr. Turbo system seems to be from ancient times. Thank you for all the advice along the way, and keep your fingers crossed that the Dicktator works like planned.

I will contact you as soon as we are up and running...

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:23 pm

Hi Bennie does the standard 7MGE motor with the standard management have knock control

And secondly just for clarification does the setup you have run with a 6coil setup and what type of dizzi does it have. I ask all this as I am not familiar with the toyota set up.

Lets take a set up like the 325iS 1992 EVO2 this motor does not have a pinging problem even when placed under very extreame loads. The set up is very simple on the management side it use Bosch Digital Engine Management (DME) 1.2

Ignition is controled with:
1.High Tention dizi with no ajustment runs directly of the cam the rotor as a large sweep area for ajustment by the DME
2.1 coil
3.A incremental sensor which runs of the crank pully with TD ref.
4.A cylinder refrance sensor

Fuel is managed with

1 Air mass meter with intergril intake temp sensor
2 Throttle potentiometer with idle switch
3 Engine temp sensor.

The system does without knock control as the system is not tuned to the ultimate max so to speek as well as the fact that the compretion is also not to high.

So depending on the setup knock control is not the only way to prevent knocking. What was the problem with your current setup? I understand why you want to get rid of the original system. What I am trying to say perhaps the ignition is just to far advanced and this can also cause poor performance. And also just remeber the fuel quality with very low octain rating the 3L M3 E36 has problems running on LRP and that runs with knock control so if you want to hear pinging take a listen to one of them on LRP.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:03 pm

Howzit Cookie,

I understand what you are trying to say to Bennie, but bear in mind that a BMW 325iS will never plug along at 1000 rpm up an incline that looks like a bunch of rocks glued to the leaning tower of Pizza. That is where a knock sensor really plays its part, when the loads are at low rpm...

The standard ecu does all of this magnificently... but at what price?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:33 pm

:? Dunno what happened here :? I did post a reply here earlier, guess it didn't submit properly, it was in the early hours one morning I think so I guess I was not too fresh at the time.

Any case, the 7MGE runs a single coil, igniter and a static dizzy and timing is controlled via the ECU. It does have a knock sensor incorporated into the system. The 7MGTE uses a multi-coil wasted spark setup with a crank angle sensor as timing reference. Both systems uses a MAF with air temp (old school) and Throttle Position Switch and water temp sensor for engine temp.

The after market systems uses MAP instead of MAF (more reliable - new school). The also uses engine temp. air temp and TPS, but TPS is not used for fuel maps but rather to switch on auxiliary relays and for idling and fuel cut-off to prevent misfiring etc. The 7MGE (not sure about 7mGTE) also has a variable length intake manifold and one of the auxiliary relays can be used to switch it on/off according to RPM and throttle position.

I think the reason for the knock sensor is that this (at its time) was a very advanced high performance engine and one of the pioneers in using EFI controlled like this. It runs fairly high compression and with the (now twice) skimmed head it is getting even worse.

The engine also has a few mechanical things like a vacuum for idle up from the power steering pump (which never worked well on my engine but hopefully the intelligent idle controllers of the new system will negate the use of it), some sort of vacuum system on the fuel pressure regulator that I could also not figure out the use of and water channels running past the throttle body. It uses a stepper motor for the idling and I guess I will see if it can be replaced neatly with the VW type pulse width idle controller or else I will install the extra one in series in the air pipe feeding the existing one and lock the existing one in the max open position.

I am still waiting for the guy from MSX (the one with the knock sensor)to email me his systems wiring diagram and software and write ups to see how it compares to Dicktator, but he has not returned my mail.

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:45 am

HI Guys

Well it looks like its alot of PT . Did you Guys read the artical in the latest SA 4x4 about the chap who does the Lexus mods I wonder how he has it set up

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:12 am

He's probably still learning through default. Also, if you look at the picture of the gear selector inside the cab, you can clearly see that it is a second rate job. The finishing really does not look good. I wouldn't take my car there. There is no attention to detail.

It still gets to me that you will pay R65,000 for a conversion, and then be satisfied with crappy finishing. I believe that every SFA owner here is mighty proud of his ride, and even more so when you pay thousands to make it better. I sometimes wish we had the same passion as the guys in the USA when it comes to 'Modderfikasies'.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:49 am

As I said in a PM to Erik

If I ever do such a conversion again (7MGE or EFI) I will rather do it myself because most(all) of these guys do stiff you when you are not looking by taking some sort of short cut somewhere.

The problem is you sometimes only realise it a year or so down the line and then it is difficult to have it rectified by them and you end up having to fix it yourself or fork out more money

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:13 am

Yep, get involved as much as possible. Also, don't be scared to do it yourself. It might be hard work, but in the end, you don't have to wait two months for some oke to replace a clamp...

And, you know its done the right way.

See Bennie, I am learning new tricks every day now....

My car is still not finished. Every time I get there, he has taken on other work, and done about 20 minutes of work on my bakkie. I am super frustrated. The problem is that I paid him upfront, to help him out, and now I have to wait for him to make money to continue work on my van... At least, that's what I think. Never again. He is very knowledgable on the 7M engines, but if I were ever to do it again, I would get in my car with him, drive all over, buy the parts myself, and then pay him after the work was done. And so, you learn...

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:00 pm

Doing it yourself is not always quicker. I am busy sliding building a gate for my front yard and that in itself is keeping me busy for a while already, then I have alls sorts of other little projects and the lux is standing with me not finding any time to work on it

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:43 am

Hi Bennie

You have to make a plan :D When you going to start on the Van

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:48 am

Sodra die hek, paving en die tuin ligte klaar is tensy Ma te veel begin moan oor die kombuis ook

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:28 am

Gaan jy nog Berakah toe Bennie? Ek neem aan as jy gaan gaan jou bakkie nie reg wees nie.
Jy moet dan vir ou Limey vat

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:44 am

Riaan, Limey kan nie by enige plaas verby ry nie want al wat n dier is wat blare eet gaan hom jaag want dit mag soms die enigste regte groen ding wees in die area.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:58 am

Ek sal maar 'n swart seil oor hom trek en hoem soentoe sleep

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:17 am

Watse engine gaan jy vir Limey insit? hehe...

Blykbaar is die lexus engines met twin turbo installasie uitstekend....

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:17 am

No offence maar ek is 'n Normal Asperated oukie

Turbo's en offroad crawling gaan nie regtig saam nie, ek wil ry op RPMs onder boost so al wat vir my werk is baie silinders en baie CCs met low end grunt

Sal dalk my huidige engine fix vir Limey en 'n nuwe een in Ratelslang sit, maar sal dan nog 'n 3.0 Cressida bellhousing en flywheel in die hande moet kry.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:40 am

Hallo Bennie...

Jy se jy hou van baie silinders en cc's...

Die Toyota 1GZ-FE is 'n 5.0 L (4996 cc) V12 48 klep DOHC enjin. met 'n kompressie ratio van 10.5:1. Krag lewering is 208 kW teen 5200 RPM met 481 Nm torque 4000 RPM. Die petrol sisteem is 'n EFI.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:52 am

Moenounie my kop kom deurmekaar krap en dit vol allerhande duistere gedagtes plak nie. (Af van my skouer af duiwel )

Ewald

Nee man ek ken mos nou al die Pro's en Con's van die 7M-GE engine en dis met die regte OE parte 'n bolt-on so jy hoef nie custom adapter kits te kry nie. So ek ek nog so 'n conversion doen sal dit hopelik hierdie keer baie makliker wees om dit perfek te kry en die krag is net genoeg om nie te veel te wees nie.

Te veel krag en dan breek jy weer ander goeters en moek jy die conversion al hoe verder uitbrei. Wat ek altyd late kan doen as my gat begin jeuk is om die 7M-GE te optimise. Van die ouens op van die oorsese Supra forums haal 'n hele paar ekstra perde uit die NA engine amper so veel as met jou Turbo model

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:04 pm

Bennie, ek ken iemand wat net die regte ding vir jou het. Die Toyota U enjin. Die Toyota U familie was 'n reeks flat-twin enjins. Hierdie monster is 'n lugverkelde 697 cc ohv 2-silinder boxer wat 21 kW maak.

Hy gebruik nie 'n Mr. Turbo of 'n Dicktator nie....

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:44 pm

Ja nee ek het lankal gedink ek will my toy se wiper motor ook opgradeer. Hierrie engine sal mooi werk

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:13 am

Ek sal maar vir Marius Safari hiervan vertel. Hy sal dubbel ogteroor bolmakiesies maak as hy so enjin in sy pampoen kan kry...

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:02 am

Hi Everyone,

I am happy to report that the Dicktator system works as Bennie promised. Bennie is personally liable for the warranty, and both my wife and I have his number on speed dial in case we have a breakdown in the middle of the night on our way to Namibia...

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:06 am

Ewald

The warranty idea sounds great, but on one condition. You have to leave the van with me for a month so that I can test it properly and make sure that everything is in good working order and installed and wired properly.

Then also it has to come for monthly check ups that will take about a weekend to complete

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:14 am

You know what, I don't want to bog you down with work...

Forget about the warranty... I'll live without it...

But seriously, the Dicktator is smooth and responsive. I cannot say that it is any worse than the Toyota ECU at this stage, the engine finally makes the power it should.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:47 am

No problem, for a friend it is not too much work, I will only be happy to help out and give you the peace of mind you desire

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:42 am

Bennie,

You forgot to mention that your monthly tests are extensive; you would require at least a full tank of petrol to test thoroughly, and probably the Petrol Card as well.

-F_D

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:14 pm

Howzit F-D

A word of advice if you please, keep &*@#* your #@$%* nose $$#@% out of &$#@%^ thank you very @#$$%@ much!!!

And you call yourself friendly....

Post by **Family_Dog** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:47 pm

Heh... careful, you'll burst a vein

-F_D
(Dog's best Friend)

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:53 pm

My poor karretjie...

Wendell · Post by **Wendell** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:35 pm

Hi Guys,

Where can I buy a steel head gasket for my 7M-GTE in my hilux?

Bulletjie-3 · Post by **Bulletjie-3** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:33 pm

Leda Performance Cape Town tel 0215576774 email performance+@ieda.co.za
Rather phone them.

pampoen · Post by **pampoen** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:48 pm

Just my 2 bits worth,having owned 7mge hilux i put together, i would say if your looking for reliable go for the way it was meant to be,original i battled like hell with the dictator unit,i had it re-programed 3 times,i was running just the bear vacuum control though,but rather pay the price and buy the parts you need to have a reliable vehicle,itil save you alot of heart ache,believe me!