2.7 engine troubles

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:37 pm

hi All

This is my first post, I think, but it'll probably not be the last! Bought a 2000 model Hilux 2.7 4x4 from Halfway Toyota George earlier this year with 154000km on the clock. I assumed it would be good buy as it was from a Toyota dealer....wrong...the thing uses oil...off the dipstick from full within 1000km. Anyway, after about 8000km some noises started coming from under the bonnet that didn't sound good. I took it to a reputable local mechanic who says he thinks there is problem with no.4 piston (ring, skirt or gudgeon pin). A compression test confirmed lower compression on cylinder no.4.

Does anyone here have any ideas, or what repairs may cost or if a complete import engine can be bought anywhere?

thanks in advance!

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:04 pm

Welcome Paul!

First I have to wonder about that mileage - the 2.7 is a tough motor and should not be using oil or be having any problems. If you got a FSH with the vehicle, check it to see if the mileage is correct.

If the motor was overheated, number 4 would be the first one to suffer (furthest from the coolant re-entering the motor from the radiator). If that happened, the piston skirt could have deformed with the heat which would make it noisy and precipitate more uneven bore wear than what is normal - rings can also suffer as a result, and from the amount of oil usage it sounds like the oil ring is gone.

Best is to strip it and check the pistons, have the bores and crank mic'ed for wear. You might be lucky if the mileage is genuine in that a re-bore might not be necessary and still be able to fit standard pistons. When opening the motor I would in any event replace the big-end and main bearings on the crank and crank seals. If the pistons are still good you could just replace rings, but I would replace the pistons anyway. Check the the oil pick-up is not gundged up and check the oil pump. Also check the bearings gears / chain on the balance shaft (I believe the 2.7 has one).

You could save yourself a packet if you are able to DIY, otherwise take it to someone respectable.

Maybe one of the guys with more current experience of costs could give you a realistic idea what you would be in for. Good luck!

Post by **pietpetoors** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:39 pm

Something fishy about the kilos, that engine must do at least 500,000km or more before giving problems like that.

You do get Jap imports in those engines, sure the other guys will be able to tell you where to get. Those are not cheap to fix.

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:57 am

No ways! Take it back to where you bought it and make it their problem. CPA and all, you know.

Cheetah Drakie · Post by **Cheetah Drakie** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:10 am

Agree with all the guys sofar. The 3RZ motor is tough and virtually indestructible. My 1999 model now has 540 000 on the ODO, and apart from doing the SAC conversion at over 500 000 km's the engine has never been opened. Uses no oil or water and is a pleasure. I had the clutch replaced at 530 000.

Nope you got a lemon for sure!

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:50 pm

Thanks guys. There must have been over heating event and a subsequent cylinder head repair job. The head has now been taken off...plenty silicone sealer everywhere and a pirate head-gasket found. There is plenty oily carbon deposit on the piston tops and combustion chamber and valves. The cylinder bores do not have obvious original hone marks anymore as one would expect with such low mileage. The mechanic (like Mud Dog) suggests checking the pistons, so the motor must come out. I'm now going to approach the dealer and see what the CPA can do for me. Wish me luck. :)

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:14 pm

Update:

The engine has obviously been open before. The no.3 big end is shot and the crank lobes were touching the underside of the piston (at BDC) and the con-rod bolt heads touched and broke out a little piece of the cylinder bore bottom edge (at TDC). The piston skirts look like they were sanded previously. Everything looks like a professional backyard mechanic had a go at it. If you don't know what a BYM is listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QZV6sr-tpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line is that I got served a big juicy LEMON directly from a Toyota dealer. Now lets see what they plan to do about it.

Damage at this stage comes to R24000.

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:33 pm

In the beginning of this year I had a miss hap with my 2.7 damn crank pully coming loose. I bite the bullet then and bought a import 2.7 from the importers. Confirmed kms on the import was 60 000km. The price was R17900.

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:11 pm

4x4megaworldpta wrote:In the beginning of this year I had a miss hap with my 2.7 damn crank pully coming loose. I bite the bullet then and bought a import 2.7 from the importers. Confirmed kms on the import was 60 000km. The price was R17900.

I've been thinking of going this route. Are there any horror stories about the imported engines or are they in general more reliable than a locally rebuilt unit? The price between the 2 is not that great so I could easily be persuaded to go either way.

Does anyone have actual contact details of guys dealing in imported engines and are the engines compatible with our bakkies in terms of electonics, etc?

thanks

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:29 pm

All I did to make it easier for myself was to remove whole intake manifold, exhaust manifold, coil packs and then switch these from the old engine to the "new" one.

Pretty much all of the sensors are the same, I think I swopped 2 because the plugs were different, position of the sensors are the same.

I did above swops just to make sure I could use the original ecu without any hassles. Further drain all the oil, replace the front and back crank seals with the oil filter. Make sure the sump is the same, I remember swopping this as well.

Just ask the importer where his engines are coming from, Japan for example is good as there no vehicle can go over 60 000km. After that the whole vehicle get recycled.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:31 pm

are they in general more reliable than a locally rebuilt unit?

That depends on who does the rebuild with what quality of spares.

Either way you have a risk. I would take my risk with an import from a reputable importer

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:20 pm

pietpetoors wrote: reputable importer

anyone care to share, as I'm also looking for a 2.4D 2L motor for my 1986 4x2?

thanks

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:24 pm

Thabogrobler wrote:No ways! Take it back to where you bought it and make it their problem. CPA and all, you know.

The dealer has yet to respond to my call to inform them of the situation and 2 emails with photos of the damage.

Thunder02 · Post by **Thunder02** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:50 pm

PaulH wrote:
pietpetoors wrote: reputable importer
anyone care to share, as I'm also looking for a 2.4D 2L motor for my 1986 4x2?

thanks

Don't be shy, post his name here, if you are confident with the proof.

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:53 pm

PaulH wrote:
pietpetoors wrote: reputable importer

Some guys who have responded to emails:

abbas@japanauto.co.za
joseph@japeuro.co.za

Price varies from R17000 to R19500

Reputability???

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:16 pm

UPDATE:

Finally received this one and only communication from the dealer since reporting the problem on Monday. See below. What do you guys think? Is this worth pursuing and reporting to the ombudsman or will I be farting against the wind?

email from dealer:

"Thank you for your E-Mail dated 10 Sept.

The vehicle that was purchased, falls outside of the Toyota Automark parameters of not older than 5 years.

Said vehicle was sold as such and did not have a Toyota certification attached to it. It is an early model (14 years old) and has been subjected to extensive use, and has wear n tear which can fall in line with a vehicle of this age. Although every precaution is taken to ensure that the vehicles are mechanically sound, we cannot foresee the internal component’s condition.

The vehicle was received fully operational, without any mechanical defects.

The vehicle had done +- 7000 km by 13 May, and was fully operational.

All repairs and maintenance of the vehicle would be for the vehicle owner.

Regards
Gerrie Hattingh
Sales Manager
Used Vehicles

Halfway Toyota George
Cnr Courtenay & Meade Street
P O Box 415
George 6530
Email: sales@halfwaygeorge.co.za
Website: http://www.halfwaygeorge.co.za" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
T 044 802 8200 F 044 873 2546
C 082 4636505''

Ultred · Post by **Ultred** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:26 pm

Who did the +- 7000 km on the truck? IF it was you , then they have proof it was mechanically in good working condition.

Chops · Post by **Chops** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:06 pm

Sorry to hear about your 2.7! Agree on the kms. When I bought mine I was told 500 - 600 000 easily. It hasn't reached 100k yet.

If its not an Automark vehicle, was there any other warrentee applicable?

Remember, it's not always the dealer who's at fault. Previous owners also tend to trade there crap, without disclosing any defects! Sure it was the case here.

Regarding the kms. There are persons who specialize in turning the kms back. Yes, a shocking practice! Seems to be standard practice in the 2nd hand car game nowadays!

I would opt for the import engine option.

Skoolgeld boet, skoolgeld!

Even vehicles such as VW Mastercars can be a dud! Once assisted a friend in finding a VW Golf 3 GTi. Found a Mastercar approved one in Pretoria. Didn't have the clear coat in the engine bay. Became suspicious. Got hold of the previous owner. He ran it off the road and it was written of by the insurance! Shocking...but true!

A vehicle standing in an official's dealer lot can provide a false sense of the vehicle's condition.

You really need to do your homework, and know vehicles, when you're buying secondhand! Its fun to be "detective"!

Regarding the whine. Could be the 5th gear, and/or the diff! 5th gear whine (bearings) seem to be common issue on these vehicles. Caused by pulling heavy trailers in 5th gear. 4th, the direct gear, should be used!

All of the best!

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