Air helpers; do they help??

grobbepj · Post by **grobbepj** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:48 am

Hi All,

Once again I need advise and once again I will be showing my lack of knowledge on the accesories scene...so if the terms are the right one please try and bear with me.

I am driving a 2005 Legend 35 kzte with +-190 000km on the clock. I try to use it more just on weekends and holidays and not so much as a daily runner anymore (diesel got expensive). As part of the standard gear always on the KZ is an Alu cab canopy, long range tank, drawer system, replacement bumpers front and back (with extra sparewheel), 50l water tank, dual battery system and some other odds and ends. SO the point Im trying to make is that is normally carriers quite a bit of weight on the back (and much more when loaded for holidays as I dont have a trailer so all goes in or on the truck).

About a year ago I saw the back "sagged"a bit and was hanging low, so on some advise around here (which I found out later was maybe not the best advise) I took the truck to have the springs re-tensioned an extra leaf added for handling the weight. This worked very well and the bakkie was standing nice and straight (almost couldnt fit in my garage any more).

But now it seems to be sagging again and the shackle on the back is not standing nice and upright anymore (should they???). I took it for a service and the following was proposed by their salesman (orange light coming on). I should fit there air bags/ helpers on the bakkie and then pump them up to get hte bakkie straight. THen I wont need to replace the leaf springs as they are not completely shot. Now some questions:
1. Does this seem to be a viable option?
2. Does these air helpers help and how durable are they? I do a lot of long distance and dirt road driving and dont want to be left on hte side of the road due to "fixing a problem"
3. Will it work to just fit them on mycurrent leaf springs?
4. How will they affect the handling of the bakkie; especially offraod and on trials?
5. Should I rather just take it to have the OME suspension leaf springs replaced (pretty expensive)?
6. If I do replace the current springs will my problem keep re-occuring? i.e. should I then also fit air helpers (ouch on hte wallet side again)

Thanks in advance for any replies. Any pros and cons of these air helpers or options will be appreciated. I search the forum but could not find the answers.

Post by **Haboob** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:29 am

Hi Pieter,
I had the same problem with my previous D/C 2.4P. I fitted an extra main spring then also had Top Dog/Tough Dog (or something like that, which was a helper spring). This did help for the weight.
I understand that the Air Helpers would work in the same way. The added advantage would be that you can pump up the Air Helpers when leaving for your holiday for the extra weight that you will add to the vehicle. You would also under normal driving be able to add just enough pressure in the Air Helpers, to help support the extra weight of the unladen vehicle.
In my upgrade, I have fitted heavy duty springs to the back, which are keeping the stance reasonable at the moment, as my vehicle is also a holiday vehicle. If it starts to sag, then I will have to add Air Helpers or find an alternative solution, so will be keeping an eye on this thread of yours.
I have no doubt that with the added weight you will need the extra support. Somewhere on the Forum there is a thread about what you keep in your vehicle. I put a list on that thread on what is in/on my vehicle, and I can assure you that the list is substantial. I know that I should have a Medium suspension on the front, but currently it is fitted with a light spring set in front and heavy at the back.
In that list I do not think that I included the 24 braai packs and other stuff fitted in a 50 litre Freezer. The 45 L Fridge is also filled to capacity before leaving on a trip.
Hope this has been of some help. Edge.

Mikem1 · Post by **Mikem1** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:12 pm

Good day.
With regards to re-tensioning of leaf springs unless the full process is followed very carefully ie shotpeening,scragging stress relieved et etc they don't last exactly what has happened here.Air helps are also expensive and can also fail after time due to corrosion etc.My suggestion is a new leaf pack which we can supply you which will carry some extra load and still maintain the ride comfort as we have designed the leaf pack to raise away from the helper or load blades so with no load the vehicle still has a comfortable ride.
This wont kill the pocket and as a forum member I will give you the best deal.

Regards
Darrell
Mikem suspension
137 eloff str ext jhb
011 493 5181

grobbepj · Post by **grobbepj** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:22 pm

Mikem1 wrote:Good day.
With regards to re-tensioning of leaf springs unless the full process is followed very carefully ie shotpeening,scragging stress relieved et etc they don't last exactly what has happened here.Air helps are also expensive and can also fail after time due to corrosion etc.My suggestion is a new leaf pack which we can supply you which will carry some extra load and still maintain the ride comfort as we have designed the leaf pack to raise away from the helper or load blades so with no load the vehicle still has a comfortable ride.
This wont kill the pocket and as a forum member I will give you the best deal.

Regards
Darrell
Mikem suspension
137 eloff str ext jhb
011 493 5181

Thanks Darell. Sounds like a need to come give you a visit soon to discuss the options more. Can you please PM me an idea of the costs I am looking at?? Wont hold you to it but I need to start making a call on my options and also get the savings money in order...
I just dont want to compromise on the reliability ofthe vehicle in any way and there seem to be reports of suspension cracking after installing airbags on a leaf spring system (could not confirm this).

The Jury seems very much divided on this...

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:06 pm

grobbepj wrote:
Mikem1 wrote:Good day.
With regards to re-tensioning of leaf springs unless the full process is followed very carefully ie shotpeening,scragging stress relieved et etc they don't last exactly what has happened here.Air helps are also expensive and can also fail after time due to corrosion etc.My suggestion is a new leaf pack which we can supply you which will carry some extra load and still maintain the ride comfort as we have designed the leaf pack to raise away from the helper or load blades so with no load the vehicle still has a comfortable ride.
This wont kill the pocket and as a forum member I will give you the best deal.

Regards
Darrell
Mikem suspension
137 eloff str ext jhb
011 493 5181
Thanks Darell. Sounds like a need to come give you a visit soon to discuss the options more. Can you please PM me an idea of the costs I am looking at?? Wont hold you to it but I need to start making a call on my options and also get the savings money in order...
I just dont want to compromise on the reliability ofthe vehicle in any way and there seem to be reports of suspension cracking after installing airbags on a leaf spring system (could not confirm this).

The Jury seems very much divided on this...

Pieter

Can I tell you one thing.You will visit Darrell with the old leafs in your bakkie and you will leave him with a new leaf pack fitted.
His service is unbelievable.The quotes he gives for forum members you can,t beat.

Do yourself a favour and visit him.

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:51 pm

Air helpers helps to bend your chassis, that's all they are good for.
Fit a decent set of blades like Darrell sugested, you won't look back.

nicovh · Post by **nicovh** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:49 am

My experience is a bit different. Had the same problems on my 2.7. Especially considering that my rooftop is mounted on the canopy as well. The bakkie was fitted with the extra Loadhog spring when I bought it, but did not help enough, it sagged and bumped through a lot. Spent the R5k and fitted the air helper springs about 4 years ago. What a miracle! Unbelievable road handling with full load. Simply deflate with no load. Never looked back, to be honest if/when I buy another vehicle it will be the first mod I'll do again. Nothing has ever bent and we go off the beaten track in low range frequently.

Only compromise is the rear axle articulation. It does not flex as much as usual.

WayneMan · Post by **WayneMan** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:47 am

I had the same sagging problem on my KZ. Fitted the heavy duty leaf springs from Mikem (Darryl). I think its the my best investment yet.
The air helpers like Daryl says can let you down (excuse the pun) and become problematic and require attention and maintenance.
Dont waste your time with the air jobbies.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:03 pm

Mikem - local reliable product, excellent after-sales, a nice young man

who knows what he's doing, and does it with a smile. Simple.

Post by **Bugzy** » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:42 pm

You won't go wrong with Darrell - I went to see him and I'm VERY happy with what he has done for me and he doesn't lie about about NOT killing your pocket - he is the best

Hangover · Post by **Hangover** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:00 am

Firestone Air suspension works like you can not believe. My dad tows a 3ton boat with his V6 Cruizer and usually the back is fully loaded. The Cruizer's ,which is already a heavy loader, butt was hanging terribly every time we went on holiday so my dad fitted the air suspension... Now fully laden like before ry die cruizer weer afdraende.... So imho if you do heavy loads go for the air suspension i really works... my dad has done about 40k km's without any problems. These balloons as we call them are rated for 2200lbs each if you want to make calculations

grobbepj · Post by **grobbepj** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:46 am

Mikem1 wrote:Good day.
With regards to re-tensioning of leaf springs unless the full process is followed very carefully ie shotpeening,scragging stress relieved et etc they don't last exactly what has happened here.Air helps are also expensive and can also fail after time due to corrosion etc.My suggestion is a new leaf pack which we can supply you which will carry some extra load and still maintain the ride comfort as we have designed the leaf pack to raise away from the helper or load blades so with no load the vehicle still has a comfortable ride.
This wont kill the pocket and as a forum member I will give you the best deal.

Regards
Darrell
Mikem suspension
137 eloff str ext jhb
011 493 5181

Thanks Darrell for a nice chat yesterday. Now i just need to make my mind up and check the finances... Will let you know soon

grobbepj · Post by **grobbepj** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:49 am

Hoppy wrote:Air helpers helps to bend your chassis, that's all they are good for.
Fit a decent set of blades like Darrell sugested, you won't look back.

Hi Hoppy, can you please pm me your telephone number? I would just like to quickly get you reasons behind this before I make a call. Had a chat to Darrell yestrday and just need to weigh up the costs. The new blades will be almost R2500 more than firestone air helpers after installation. But I dont want to be sorry either way. Thanks,
Pieter

Skilpad4X4 · Post by **Skilpad4X4** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:32 pm

Hi Pieter
Jy sal glad nie spyt wees as jy mikem vere insit nie.Ek het ook gedink om te gaan vir airhelper omdat die vere ook begin sak het.Nadat ek die twee opsies oorweeg het en pryse het ek besluit om te gaan vir mikem en ek is glad nie spyt nie .Die stabiliteit is ook baie beter. Thanks Darrell For your super service

Rollercoaster639 · Post by **Rollercoaster639** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:46 am

Here is my 5c worth. I have a similar setup with draw system and canopy complete with amo box draw and rooftop tent and 60l water tank. I also tow a 19"ski boat with 2x90hp motors.
1st prize: You are overloading your bakkie. Get rid of some of the junk.
2nd prize: If you are like me keep the junk. I have OME suspension. Back of bakkie was sagging. Upgraded to heavy duty suspension with added spring from OME. This was better but also depended on the load. Hard when not loaded and depending on the load still sagged. I then added the air springs from firestone. This give you the option to adjust your suspension. Also because I have upgraded the suspension I really dont need to add to much pressure to the air bags. With no load under normal use I keep them at 1.4 bar. With the load and towing the boat I pump them to just over 2 bar.

I have had this set up since about mid 2011 and have never had a problem since. Even with the best suspension from the best manufacturer your bakkie will sag.I think that my combination of both the upgrade to the suspension and the air bags is the best of both worlds. NOT CHEAP.
Some observations: Without the airbags and with a load there was still noticeable sagging. There was also noticeable "roll" when turning.
With no load it was a harder ride. (even worse on a gravel road)

With the airbags and with load the first think I noticed was the reduced "roll" and the "softer ride" and a level bakkie. Even with no load the ride was softer as the airbags always have at least 1 bar and as such do take the first jolt and first bit of load before the leaf springs. (I hope I am explaining this correctly)
Caution: Some fitment centres put a valve between the two airbags. They say this gives more articulation as the air in on bag can transfer to the other bag. There is some truth to this but the negative side is that you can pop the airbag because now all the pressure is in one bag.
Keep it one valve to one airbag.
The above if from my experience. I am almost willing to put money on it that if you are carrying a heavy load the even if you do the suspension upgrade you will eventually get the air bags.

If you tell me now that you can only afford one system and ask me which one I will tell you without hesitation AIRBAGS.

grobbepj · Post by **grobbepj** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:17 pm

Jis you guys are not making this any easier... but thanks for all the inputs.

Like most things it seems like spending the most might be the best, but I can only do one now. and if we do the longer trips I am most probably loading it a bit much (I dont tow anything as I dont have something to tow so all goes in and on hte bakkie). I very rarely drive with it completely empty on the back.

So far I could make out the airbags will give a more comfortable ride, especially on corrugated roads, but will hamper articulation on the rear wheels. And they can fail and leave you with the not 100% suspension. And they can cause suspension failure??

Suspsension will be more expensive and will give a bit bumpier ride (must admit this doesnt bother me that much), but is the "right way of fixing it"? lesser stuff that can go wrong later on. and mikem comes highly recommended...

or win the lotto and do both (or then just buy a cruiser...)

Choices choices...

Toppie4x4 · Post by **Toppie4x4** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:56 am

Het n stel airspings gekry by Werner en gaan dit beslis n go gee in my Hilux. Daar is ook n 40mm spacer saam met die kit.

Dink daaraan om 4x4 direct se extended shackels in the sit met die spacer op die air springs??

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:06 am

I had Firestone Airsprings on my Prado for 7 years and they were great, especially when fully loaded for long trips.
I have fitted Firestone Airsprings to my Hilux and they make a big difference when I mount the Canopy caravan. When lightly loaded they do soften the rear end a bit which makes for more comfortable travel, especially on our Free State roads.
There again horses for courses, the final decision is yours.
Good luck

Post by **george** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:43 pm

I installed a set of these and so far quite happy.Got about 15mm lift and can carry a heavier load.Took about 20min to install

http://www.4x4direct.co.za/suspension-a ... p-1721.htm

Toppie4x4 · Post by **Toppie4x4** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:55 pm

Gaan beslis volgende naweek my firestone airsprings fit, al het ek sopas n extra blade ingesit.

wim · Post by **wim** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:56 pm

My trokkie is n 3.0l D4D 4x4 , wanneer op vakansie is hy gelaai met Alu canopy, laai sisteem, kombuis,50l water tank,rooftop tent,ARB yskas, ens, ens, ens... dan het hy nog intergrated bull bar en tow bar op. As hy gelaai is met nog kos klere ens dan hang hy agter . Ek wou toe nie vere doen nie want ek wil nie he hy moet boude in die lug staan as hy leeg is nie en dis toe dat ek besluit op Firestone se airsprings. Wow dit werk soos jy nie kan glo nie , wanneer al die vakansie of kamp goed af is pomp ek hulle een bar en hy staan mooi gelyk met die canopy laaisisteem en 50l water wat altyd op bly. So ek kan my vering verstel volgens hoe ek gelaai is , gemaklik . My probleem is egter as mens deur n knik in die pad gaan dan voel did of die suspensie insak en dan uitskiet wat veroorsaak dat die kinders agter leterlik uit die sitplekke uitgeskiet word . Het skokbtekers vervang met KONI skokbrekers maar die trokkie toe so hard ek het hulle weer uitgehaal. So ek sit nog met daai probreen. Ek her die banddruk verlaag tot 1.8 bar toe wat dit verbeter het maar is nog daar.

Toppie4x4 · Post by **Toppie4x4** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:49 am

Lyk my n mens sal moet rondspeel met die druk wanneer die hilux nie vrag het nie.

wim · Post by **wim** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:05 am

Dis my volgende stap Andre , deul cab controller en kompressor sodat
ek in die ry kan verstellings doen.

Racing snake · Post by **Racing snake** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:24 am

Wimpie. I would have thought that any vehicle with increased spring tension would behave like that. If one increases the spring tension buy adding extra leafs or air helpers then the damping of the shocks should be increased. Problem then is driving without a load when the damping will be to severe, even with the air helpers deflated. OR am I missing something?

Toppie4x4 · Post by **Toppie4x4** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:25 pm

Agree Brian.................luckily most of my camping stuff stays in the vehicle. I only remove the RTT and awning. So I will always have load on the back wheels. Is it worth the while to for the front lift kit for the IFS 2004??? As per 4x4 directs adds.

wim · Post by **wim** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:35 pm

On the spot Brain. My canopy with kitchen , drawer system and water tank also stays on my van permenantly so there is always a load. Did a 1014km trip this weekend from Vryheid , Newcastle , Memel , Vrede . Frankford , Heilbron , Sasolburg , Parys and then Potchefstroom and back again some parts of the roads is bad so its not a very comfortable trip. Dit the trip with the Koni shocks in and there is a inprovement but is still not right. If you couple a gauge to the air bag you can see the pressure in the bags going up and down when driving because of the suspention working. So what happens ass the suspention moves in the 1bar airbag becomes a 3bar airbag causing a outwards spring action that is my problem. I think I shoud remove the airbags and leave the Koni s in and see what happens. My problem then is that the rear is going to be hanging because of the waight I have got on and thats why I fitted the bags for in the first place. Hope my inglish makes sense.

grobbepj · Post by **grobbepj** » Mon May 11, 2015 5:48 am

Het hierdie thread op n ander forum gesien....
Weet nie if link gaaan werk maar hier gaan hy.

http://wegryforum.weg.co.za/showthread.php?t=5510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Daai chassis buig ding maak my bang.

Toppie4x4 · Post by **Toppie4x4** » Mon May 11, 2015 6:36 am

Hi Pieter, ja ek het toevallig ook die artikel gelees. Ek dink dit is veral van toepassing indien jy te swaar gelaai is en dan nog n woonwa ook sleep. En natuurlik hoe vinnig jy byvoorbeeld oor n speed hump / obsticle gaan byvoorbeeld. Ek het nog nie my air helpers in nie????

grobbepj · Post by **grobbepj** » Mon May 11, 2015 8:46 am

Toppie4x4 wrote:Hi Pieter, ja ek het toevallig ook die artikel gelees. Ek dink dit is veral van toepassing indien jy te swaar gelaai is en dan nog n woonwa ook sleep. En natuurlik hoe vinnig jy byvoorbeeld oor n speed hump / obsticle gaan byvoorbeeld. Ek het nog nie my air helpers in nie????

Ja nee net as ek ek my besluit maak dan is daar iets wat my weer laat dink...

Maar ja die feit dat dit nog in gebruik is en redelik gewild is kan ek nie dink dit is vreeslik algemeen nie? Swak redenasie heel moontlik.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Mon May 11, 2015 9:52 am

It depends on what you do and how much you load. Without an air helper you can clearly see when you overloaded your vehicle. With the air helper you cannot see when you overload your vehicle and you have to apply common sense.

I would say you have to load your vehicle with the air helper deflated so that back can sag and you can see how much you loaded. Then only pump up the air helpers so that they can do what they are supposed to do "HELP".

The air helpers are not there to increase loading capacity, it is there to minimize sagging.

A double cab's biggest drawback is that you load just about everything behind your rear axle. That is why a double cab cannot take much load.

The idea of the air helper is not to take the D/C from 600Kg capacity to 1.5 ton capacity, especially if that 1.5 ton is behind the rear axle.

If you keep that in mind you will not have a problem and then there is no way the air helper can bend your chassis.

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Mon May 11, 2015 12:37 pm

I agree with Pieter.
When I had the Prado, I weighed everything that went into the vehicle & onto the roofrack to ensure that I was not overloaded.
I will be doing the same with the Hilux, knowing what the Canopy Caravan weighs to avoid overloading.
I am certain that there will be items that are left behind because of weight as we have done in the past.
We regularly do a check to see what we didn't use on a long trip. However, we don't compromise on recovery gear even if never been used before.

Toppie4x4 · Post by **Toppie4x4** » Mon May 11, 2015 12:57 pm

I agree Pieter.............I've realised that even though my head lights are set correctly the vehicle sag so much that the oncoming traffic keeps on flashing me. So to level the vehicle this problem will also be sorted. Definitely going to install, I got my set from Werner (on our forum) for R800

Post by **RodS** » Mon May 11, 2015 10:34 pm

Like everyone else, I agree with Pieter

Two additional points:

How many people know that, in installing the air helpers, you have removed the polyurethane bumpers that saved you when you hit that big hole at speed and bottomed out the suspension? If you under-inflate the air springs, it is going to be steel on steel when you hit the big one, and I suspect that that is when chassis damage is going to happen.

Before taking the bakkie down for the air springs to be fitted, I measured the height from top of rim to mudguard (39 cm on my D4D). Last move before leaving on a trip is to pump the air springs to restore that distance.

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:29 am

Rod - I agree with your suggestions.
To get the ride height correct when loaded, I have a short length of dowel stick with a piece of tape wrapped around it to give me the minimum distance between rim and wheel arch. I find it quicker than hauling out a tape every time.

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