Is a front diff-lock necessary or just nice to have?

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:50 am

Hi All
I am new to this game and forum and would like to have more advise on is it necessary for a front diff-lock (do have rear diff-lock). The application is on a 1998 d/c 4x4. In July when I am back in SA we are planning to do a trip from the bottom of Namibia (Suid Wes) to the top across and down through Botswana. Problem is I don’t know what would be the really necessary and what is nice to have, like I said I am new to this but know that I like it.

Post by **JohanM** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:20 am

Jaco, welcome to the forum!!!!

Regarding the difflock, your SFA Hilux is more than capable to handle overlanding in std disguise with a rear diff lock fitted. I would reccommend that you first get to know the limits of the vehicle as you will be surprised to where you can take them off road.

A front diff lock is a nice to have in my view, however they are very handy when you are heading for extreme terrain and rock crawling.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:25 am

Most guys would do the trip without any diff-loc! Having the diff-loc has advantages of course, increases the life of your drivetrain, cause you spend less time fighting and wheel spinning through obstacles!

B

Post by **LouisZ** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:45 am

As a front locker helps it also can hamper a few importants issues.

1. Your turning circle gets bigger.
2. Steering the steering wheel becomes stiff if you turn.

These 2 points can seriously be dangerous if you do not keep it mind. I sell lockers, use them, Remember, double lockers can make it easy but up to now myself only have 1 at the rear. The 2nd can cause you to tackle more difficult obsticles and before you know, trouble.

Make it interesting, most stuff if your line is correct you will get it right.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:50 am

Thanks you guys, nice to have your advice as back-up, saves a lot on the green stuff.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:53 am

Front and rear lockers are good to have. Cant imagine wheeling without them.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:05 pm

Jaco welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your stay here.

My honest opinion is that your Hilux is already very well equipped for a trip through Namibia/Botswana. With the rear D/L fitted you already have traction on at least 3 of the 4 wheels at any time, which is ample to get you out of most tricky situations.

Unless you are planning on making your own roads over mountains and thru rivers I guess you are going to be sticking to existing tracks, which means that your Hilux is not the first vehicle to have used it. It is entirely likely that some guy in a Land Rover went there before you, so your Hilux should have no problems.

Conclusion: It is a nice to have, not a necessity...

:D

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:37 pm

At present my lux is diff-loc-less. I am first learning the art of choosing the right line and proper 4x4 driving! Once I feel I'm confident driving without a diff, then I will get a diff-loc!

B

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:49 pm

I normally also choose the correct line and thats STRAIGHT ahead.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:08 pm

Riceburner wrote:I normally also choose the correct line and thats STRAIGHT ahead.

You forgot to add '@ 6500rpm...'

Thys(Kaspaas) has demonstrated the benefit of a diff loc on a few occasions, where I battled over an obstacle(straight ahead at high rpm) and Kaspaas idled through! But I'll stick to non diff loc for now...

B

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:13 pm

snipes wrote:At present my lux is diff-loc-less. I am first learning the art of choosing the right line and proper 4x4 driving! Once I feel I'm confident driving without a diff, then I will get a diff-loc!

B

ditto!

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:31 pm

Lockers and crawler gears, I already forgot what you guys are learning.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:02 am

OK, so now I is confused...

when I hear the word diff-lock, I only think of the old SFA lux which only has one wheel "working".

when you lock the hubs in front, both front wheels are engaged, so in essense you only have a 4x3. But with difflock, both rear wheels are engaged and thus making it a tru 4x4.

now where does front difflock come in. I thought it had it by default

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:09 am

Those are free wheel hubs

, a locker locks both sideshafts together from the center of the diff. Free wheel hubs join your sideshafts to the outer hub so your wheel can turn when the front prop is engadged.

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:44 pm

dalkill wrote:OK, so now I is confused...

when I hear the word diff-lock, I only think of the old SFA lux which only has one wheel "working".

when you lock the hubs in front, both front wheels are engaged, so in essense you only have a 4x3. But with difflock, both rear wheels are engaged and thus making it a tru 4x4.

now where does front difflock come in. I thought it had it by default

A car with a non lockable mitt-differential will at the worst conditions (snow for example) only have one wheel spinning.

With a lockable mitt-differential you are guaranteed to have 50/50 in traction between the front and rear axle, and therefor in the worst conditions only two wheels spinning.

That's when the locks come in!

Put a lock in the rear axle and you are guaranteed to have three wheels spinning (both at the rear and one in the front because of the 50/50 diff).
And if you are crazy enough and put a diff in the front (and back) you will have four wheel spinning at the same speed no matter what the conditions are.

So, a 4x4 without mitt-differential and locks can only have four wheels spinning/powering if the traction is exactly the same on all four (well, two wheels can spin, but not at the same speed or constant).

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:02 pm

a Front lock is a much bigger advantage than a rear lock.

Appart from extreme obsticles that can be done with lockers, your wife and kids doesn't have to get out, you can crawl over the obsticle instead of charging over it, thus less wear and tear on your vehicle.

Umvubu · Post by **Umvubu** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:57 am

If you got the money fit a front locker. You won't be dissapointed.

You vehicle capabilities will be 200 % beter.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:39 am

OK, I did some research on diffs, and lockers, and found this very nifty site explaining the whole bang lot.
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/limited- ... ntials.htm

So if I have this correct, even with a standard configuration, with the free wheel hubs engage (I now know this has nothing to do with lockers

), my lux is still a true 4x4 ie. all 4 wheels are powered by their sideshafts, via propshaft, via gearbox / transferbox, via engine.
It's only one wheel lifts off the ground, then the power from the other wheel, on the same axel, is taken and put towards the wheel off the ground, which makes it useless.

But with limited slip / lockers, power is distributed to the traction wheel / all four wheels equally, respectively.

PLs tell me I got this right, and I did not spend last hour reading up on this for nothing

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:48 am

No, if you dont have lockers you have a 4x2 theoretically.

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:09 pm

Darryl, is yanking your chain Shaakir. In essence you got it right.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:28 pm

phew, I was about to slit my wrists over this.
now that I understand the beast, i just have to find the cash for front and rear lockers....

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:55 pm

I also at first wanted to kit the 'dog' out with lockers from and rear. Some wise old off-roader also advised me to get to know the vehicle and it's capabilities first. Many years hence I have still not fitted any lockers, finding the vehicle to be amazingly competent with a few acquired driving skills, not least of which is choosing a line that you know you can both handle. On hunting and fishing trips we often make our own paths, but admittedly nothing extreme.
Nice to have, not a neccessity in my opinion.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:58 pm

So Jaco, I would have to agree with Thuys, your standard lux will do fine for the trip you envisage.
Good luck.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:50 pm

Mud Dog wrote:I also at first wanted to kit the 'dog' out with lockers from and rear. Some wise old off-roader also advised me to get to know the vehicle and it's capabilities first. Many years hence I have still not fitted any lockers, finding the vehicle to be amazingly competent with a few acquired driving skills, not least of which is choosing a line that you know you can both handle. On hunting and fishing trips we often make our own paths, but admittedly nothing extreme.
Nice to have, not a neccessity in my opinion.

Very wise words. You do not needs lockers on a SFA. Lockers is for either people who cant drive or like to try out extreme stuff you normally don't need to drive in anycase. Lockers gives you a false sense of being able and then some guys get themselves into bigger trouble then what they could have gotten into if they had none. If you really know you can drive your vehicle to its limits and your driving style is not the limitation, then only do you consider getting a locker. Then the process start over again and then looooong time later you should only consider the second locker.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:14 pm

En daar kry ek al wat n antwoord is op die Rebel 4x4 site onder hulle articles LOCKERS en dan kry jy nog ‘n keuse op die goed. Maar nou die groot vraag waar en hoeveel? Hoe meer ek lees hoe meer voel ek elke 4x4 moet uitkom met front en rear lockers, soos hulle die goed maak dat jy nie jou goed beskadig nie en ons sal ou kortbroek ook meer + maak teenoor ons manne.

Dalkill
jy moet dit gaan lees my ou, jou budget is nou kastoe.

PS
Ek is nou op soek na die Detroit Truetrac, wat se die manne wat die locker like

wim · Post by **wim** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:05 pm

Shaakir I drive a 2.4 hilux with no diflocs (wimblik) and at work weve got a 2006 4.5 petrol l/cruiser that we use for 4x4 trips and some playing and I enjoy the hilux far more.The cruiser has got ARB air locker in back diff and i reasantly fitted a ausie locker in the front diff.The cruiser is just unstoppable and crawls just obought anywhere whith lockers on and I have grate fun keeping up with it driving my lux

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Wim, maar hoeveel vinniger moet jy ry om die selfde gedoen tekry en hoe veilig is dit dan vir almal wat saam met jou ry

wim · Post by **wim** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm

Ek sien dit so, die dinge wat ons begin aanvang met die cruiser maak dit dat ons gevaar sones betree en wanneer is genoeg genoeg.wanneer gaan ons dit te ver vat en dan le daai cruiser op sy dak en iemand kry seer.Jy sien n hindernis is nie meer n hindernis nie want alles is maklik met die lockers.Iemand het erens gese leer eers darsonder en kry dit dan as jy moet.Ek sal gladnie omgee on lockers op my hilux te he nie want dis n feit dat lockers n wereld se verskil maak maar eers geniet ek Wimblik nes hy is.

Bfreesani · Post by **Bfreesani** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:01 pm

Check out this video.. Two of the vehicles have lockers and were used extensively in the hour that it took to take this video, two of them don't...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX9lXEjH ... annel_page

I'll tell you later who has and who has not

2.8 d/cab SFA · Post by **2.8 d/cab SFA** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:15 am

Mine came with rear locker. As a newbie that does trails by myself,with wife and kids, it is a good safety. I try first without the locker, to learn my capabilities, the hilux is already capable, and lines. If I dont' get it right then a use the locker. It helped in the beginning with my confidence, I don't use it anymore, now that I have done few trails. I just bought BF good rich mud terrains, so it might come in hand y again.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:37 am

Have a look at the Rebel 4x4 site under articles and then lockers, then go on you tube and have a look at the ARB's demo on their lockers. The thing is with the lockers you don’t damage you bakkie because you have to charge the obstacle, tires loosing rubber dents and scrapes on your vehicle, but like the saying go "different stroke for different folk"

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:05 pm

Just remember the Rebel guys are mostly guys into extreme offroading. They are a great bunch of guys with awesome driving skills and the guys in the Supertruck category NEED lockers. They are the tipe of guys that can drive much better than the average Joe and has reached the limits of his truck and his own capabilities and then fits lockers.

That is what is being said here as well. Get to know your truck and yourself first; learn how to "read" lines and once you can go no further, then by all means fit a locker. A locker can get you into as much trouble as out of it. You need to know what your truck can do without them, to know what you will need them for. You can easily roll your truck on loose sand for example if you engage a locker a the wrong time.

I can tell you after this weekend that tyres can make as big a difference as lockers. I did not spin my 35" Cooper STT on one obstacle, where guys with diff locks where spinning out on their 30" tyres. Crawler gears are also an option to consider before going with a diff lock. I know this is not for everybody, but a diff lock is about traction and that is exactly what a Crawler kit will give you.

Anyway, I can go on about this for quite a while and in the end it probably horses for courses, but just remeber in the wrong (uneducated) hands, a diff lock can be a big a danger as it can be a life saver.

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:35 pm

Hi Jaco,

On a trip to Nam/Bots other stuff will be way more important than lockers. The right tyres and tyre pressures will be # 1. Make sure you have a reliable high capacity pump.

I'm planning on doing Kaokoland during June/July, let me know where you want to go, I have some info on Nam.

Cheers,

Chris

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:10 pm

Chris
Goed om van jou te hoor, jong ek vlieg 22 Julie terug SA toe sal die oggend van die 23ste daar wees. Ja die bande gaan Cooper ATR wees. Die lockers sal ingesit word as ek terug is in Saudi my boet sal daai vir my laat doen want dan gaan hy weer vir n ruk staan. Ek stem saam met jou om die bakkie eers met ander goed te kit vir die trip. Dalk kan jy my n paar tips gee ek verstaan jy is n gesoute long range man, dis nou as jy nie omgee nie. Ek is nogal huilerig omdat ek nie kan gaan jag die jaar nie maar die tyd is sleg beperk, daar loop n Koedoe en n Gemsbok met my naam op maar sal hulle die jaar gap gee...

stuur my n mail asb jaco.olivier@fluor.com
Dankie solank my ou maat

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:10 am

Jaco

Ek wil nie sê ek is 'n kenner op die Cooper reeks bande nie maar ek neem aan jy wil met jou trok op meer plekke as net die mall se pavings ry as jy lockers oorweeg. In daai geval is jy seker jy moet nie eerder na Cooper STT bande kyk nie?

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:27 am

the thing that appeals to me about lockers is the fact that you can approach and obstacle slower. I hate having to charge a hill.
I'm by nature very cautious, and if there is an escape route which is easier, I will take it.
Now to convince the government this is a need more than a want

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:42 am

Its even better with crawler gears

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:21 am

Hey Bennie
Ek sal bietjie weer gaan loer na die STT's dankie chom

Darryl
Ok those I don’t know nothing about will have a read on them, a test drive will do the trick beter I think

Dalkill
I think you must go and show her on you tube how and why, nice clips there.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:24 am

Anyones welcome to test drive my hilux with dual lockers and crawler gears.

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:33 am

dalkill wrote:the thing that appeals to me about lockers is the fact that you can approach and obstacle slower. I hate having to charge a hill. quote]
Riceburner wrote:Its even better with crawler gears

I can attest to this! I have for the first time this weekend experienced Crawler gears in a vehicle and I can say it definitely makes life a lot easier.

I have a Marlin Crawler kit and this gives me Extra Low Range and a lot more options. You basically have 2 transfer cases with the new one being a Super Low Range. You now have 3 gear levers instead of 2 and essentially 25 gears instead of 10.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:45 am

And no one wants to buy my hilux for R65000

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:50 am

Riceburner wrote:And no one wants to buy my hilux for R65000

It's the Frod motor - it scares people! I don't want to have to replace my paving every 2 weeks...

But why do you want to sell anyway? It looks awesome, got all the mods you will ever need... Are you bored again?

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:56 am

Need capital for bussiness.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:59 am

Ja but you came to late with the sale, I have to buy some kit for my trip

would love to buy that monster from you, Need to build a little run around for my self, the wife has taken over my new Lux was thinking of building a Tolla Van with a 3S GTE or 1JZ GTE "I believe too much power is just enough"

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:47 pm

25 gears !!!??? than be like driving a truck

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:00 pm

dalkill wrote:25 gears !!!??? than be like driving a truck

That's the point Shaakir! You can approach an obstacle at any speed you like - there will be a ratio suited to it. 1st Low Range Crawler is slower than walking!

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:22 pm

Jaco, your indicated choice of Cooper ATR's suggest you're looking for a more all rounder. The STT's are for off-road only but the ST's are a good blend of off / on-road tyre. They'll give you over 100k mileage, good road holding in wet and dry and are just a little less agressive than the STT's. Their only disadvantages over the STT's are not as good in the mud and the sidewalls are thinner and more prone to sidewall lacerations. I however, have had my ST's for a while and have been more than happy with them thus far .... I've just gotta be careful when there are sharp edged rocks.
So when you check out the STT's, check out the ST's at the same time, ... might be worth your while.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:25 pm

Darryl, how urgent is your sale? My swaer is looking for an SFA again, but will be in Aus for about 16 days.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:53 pm

Scorpion wrote:
dalkill wrote:25 gears !!!??? than be like driving a truck
That's the point Shaakir! You can approach an obstacle at any speed you like - there will be a ratio suited to it. 1st Low Range Crawler is slower than walking!

up Sir Lowry Pass, my lux is already slower than walking. Imagine up there with a crawler gear. You'd be going backward

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:04 pm

dalkill wrote:up Sir Lowry Pass, my lux is already slower than walking. Imagine up there with a crawler gear. You'd be going backward

Yeah, but you will be doing it VERY slowly.

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:12 pm

dalkill wrote:
up Sir Lowry Pass, my lux is already slower than walking. Imagine up there with a crawler gear. You'd be going backward

Not with a Lexus V8....

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:49 pm

Dalkill
Pull that stock motor and get a quad-cam Lexus V8 or a lekker lang 6 then you can drive without a ski-mask my ou

blom · Post by **blom** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:01 pm

Jaco
Vergeet die coopers ek rate hulle erens tussen my skoonma en SARS
As jy nog die "OU" cooper kan kry soos ons op Johan Scorps se trok gesit het JA, maar vir die nuwe STT vergeet liewer
Die band het 'n sagte compound, maw loop gou af. Ek het sommer heel blokke afgebreek op die rockcrawl "chunks"
NEE ek was teleurgesteld en kon nie wag dat die eterse goed klaar raak sodat ek nuwe bande kon koop nie.
Kyk na BF as jy baie overland en minder "wheel" of na maxxis as jy meer wheel (kan help met goeie pryse op die Maxxis)

skakel ronald dieseldog op die foprum as jy lockers soek hy trade onder TAC of blom@rebel4x4.co.za as jy hom nie in die hande kry nie

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:44 am

Blom
Ek dink jy is bietjie hard op jou skoonma

Ek stuur jou n mail