Proposed solar electrickery system.

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zepplin
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Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

To the boffins in these sorts of witchcafts (Chris F particularly), is there any reason this will not work?

Let's ignore the fuses for the moment. I'd just like some knowledgeable input to the basic plan please.

:subscribed:

VARKSTEAKS................just laid out the schematic in xlsx and it won't attach!

Stand by............
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by Mr_B »

Standing by... as Eskom implements loadshedding as of 11:05 this morning...
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Can't seem to get the schematic to attach so let me attempt a verbal picture.

Installed currently in engine bay of the vehicle is cranking battery & aux. deep cycle battery with a National Luna intelligent solenoid & monitor looking after the two.

My plan is to install HcdP DC/DC 12A charger in the rear (because they don't like the heat in front & no need for 16mm2 cable) to charge Aux in front only (via a 100w solar panel) and if possible, provide 12v power at the back for fridge & LED lights directly off the charger.

Flaws in this layout please.

And before you ask Chris F, I don't have the space in the back for that HcdP Mk4 powerstation you like so much! :twisted:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Sorry to get you drooling Mr B, it's for my Cruiser. I can always camp in my garden when Eksdom is playing silly buggers............
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

Steve please check your PM .... if it aint for a LUX, I cant answer here ... :tease: :lmao: :laugh2:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by Mr_B »

:tease: Good answer Chris... there's a whole Cruiser forum for this kind of nonsense! :tease:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

hehehehe ..... actually PM'd him my email addy. Would rather look at a sketch than try to figure it out the long way .... :)
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

Steve I changed the colours of the bottom lines to show OPTION 1 vs OPTION 2 (bit confusing to see both on the same drawing)
Copy of Dual Batt Solar system Cruiser.pdf
(92.18 KiB) Downloaded 202 times
Also look here, just to make sure we are talking of the same charger - http://www.hcdpelectronics.co.za/index. ... duct_id=24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the link :
NOTES
In Solar Panel mode loads will automatically be connected to battery (no bypass function)


THUS - when using the solar input the charger MUST be connected to the battery. The by-pass function (connecting the charger directly to the load) ONLY works when being powered from the engine.


ANSWER - the red lines falls away and your solar panel charges the battery only, with the loads connected as per option 2.




QUESTION - why dont you throw out the NL switch, and put the 12A charger in its place ?? THIS is what it was designed for :
Copy of Dual Batt Solar system Cruiser 2.pdf
(90.46 KiB) Downloaded 164 times
PS - this unit requires you to MANUALY choose alternator or solar input .... :slap: :slap:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

ChrisF wrote: .... if it aint for a LUX, I cant answer here ... :tease: :lmao: :laugh2:
Mr_B wrote:Good answer Chris... there's a whole Cruiser forum for this kind of nonsense!

Who says the cruiser club guys know everything????????? :twisted:

That's the charger Chris. I missed the past about the panel power being sent to the battery only. The reason for not wanting to mount it up front is that my understanding is that they don't like heat. At least that's my impression of the CTek chargers, but it's perhaps unique only to them?

If the heat under the bonnet is not an issue, then yes, best to mount it there with a thicker cable to the back.

Thanks again for your input.

Mr B, hows the hunt for the Barbie cruiser going? :twisted:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

The Ctek is splashproof, so could go under the bonnet ... except it does not do well in high temperatures ....


The HCdP unit is NOT splashproof !! CANT fit it under the bonnet !!


For both units the ideal fitment is behind the cubby-hole, with the shortest possible cable route back to the battery.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

EISH........
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by george »

ANSWER - the red lines falls away and your solar panel charges the battery only, with the loads connected as per option 2.
Are you sure about this?
In Solar Panel mode loads will automatically be connected to battery (no bypass function)
My understanding that once in Solar mode you dont have the "by-pass" function that will draw the load from the main battery,but will draw the load from the AUX.
I will test this afternoon :thumbup:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Let me know George. I think you have the same charger not so?

How is your system layed out?
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by george »

I just done some test. When the solar is connected it does not disconnect your loads.
I connected the SP to the HCDP charger and than ran my fridge.My fridge is connected to the HCDP charger.
QUESTION - why dont you throw out the NL switch, and put the 12A charger in its place ?? THIS is what it was designed for :
My thoughts exactly. I threw my NL out and is very happy with the HCDP. Unless you have a high cycle battery in front you are really missing out in a lot better charging of your second battery.
1.jpg
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

george wrote:I just done some test. When the solar is connected it does not disconnect your loads.
I connected the SP to the HCDP charger and than ran my fridge.My fridge is connected to the HCDP charger.
Thanks for the update George. The news is good!

One of the reasons for keeping the NL is also to be able to connect both batteries in front together when winching. Or can the HcdP do this too?
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by george »

One of the reasons for keeping the NL is also to be able to connect both batteries in front together when winching. Or can the HcdP do this too?
No the HCDP can not do this.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Cool. Thanks George.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Ok...got the goodies. :dance1:


Now, when mounting the DC/DC charger, how close is close enough, to the battery it's charging? Or how far is too far?

What negative effects will there be if the charger is 3.5 m from the battery using 13mm2 cabling?
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by GI Jane »

Hey guys, what is HCDP in girls language please? just so I know what you talking about...
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Val, it's the mystery of electrickery that us mere mortals cannot even begin to comprehend...........only wizards on the same plane as Chris F make sense of such sorcery. :surrender:











In a nutshell, it's the name of the company that makes the magic boxes! :twisted:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by GI Jane »

Okay great explanation, pretty much what I thought it was, a magic box :mocking: :mocking: :mocking:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

Val it is THIS crowd - http://www.hcdpelectronics.co.za/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Manie, from HCdP, knows almost as much of electrickery as your klein boet knows of a Hilux !!


JIP, they are THAT good :)



Oooo - and that other crowd that supplied your panel DO distrubute HCdP goodies :tease:


chances are you already have HCdP in your Lux
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Chris, I think you missed my question up here! :twisted:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

zepplin wrote:Ok...got the goodies. :dance1:


Now, when mounting the DC/DC charger, how close is close enough, to the battery it's charging? Or how far is too far?

What negative effects will there be if the charger is 3.5 m from the battery using 13mm2 cabling?

the "safe" answer would be "as close as possible" ... :tease:


whats the fun in playing it safe :lmao:


ONE bad electrical connection will have a higher resistance than that cable !!

Keep your connections GOOD and that length SHOULD have minimal impact.



and if it does not, I will just say one of the connections is bad ... :lmao: :lmao: :slap: :siffler:



DO keep the cable as short as possible !


and IF you have absolutely no other option then this is your shortest distance - just keep a CLOSE eye on this for a few charge cycles ....



PERSONALLY - I would not do it.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by zepplin »

Your diplomacy knows no bounds...........! :twisted:


Thanks. :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

zepplin wrote:Your diplomacy knows no bounds...........! :twisted:


Thanks. :thumbup: :thumbup:
my brits issie so goed nie ... wat is daai groot woord ... :tease: :surrender:
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by GI Jane »

Thanks Chris, always helpful with good advice. Appreciate it.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by RiyadhFortuner »

Maybe someone can help me out. I see you get solar chargers. I want to power about ten 10w 12v led lights. I want to use a solar panel to charge some 12v batteries. If I use the alarm box battery then How many would I need. Also what size solar panel would I need? I would probably use about 4 of the lights all the time and the rest when there is no electric
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

Riyadh what is "all the time" ?


Can you give the hours for the 4 and the hours for the rest - worst case for a day. The solar, charger and battery is then selected accordingly. :)
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by RiyadhFortuner »

SOrry yes, that was indeed vague. I would like to use the 4 to light up my yard and front of the house at night. So in this way current is being drawn and the battery would charge the next day. I would guess probably around 6 hours, worst case 8 hours
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

RiyadhFortuner wrote:SOrry yes, that was indeed vague. I would like to use the 4 to light up my yard and front of the house at night. So in this way current is being drawn and the battery would charge the next day. I would guess probably around 6 hours, worst case 8 hours
Okay let's work with round numbers : Let's say a 10W LED floof lamp draws 1A (just to make the maths much easier)

4 Lights x 7 hours = 28A.h

you also talk about 6 more lights for an undefined time, let's work with -

6 lights x 3 hours = 18 A.h

This sum total is less than a 50% draw on a 100A.h battery. thus one battery is okay.


2 off 80W solar panels would typically deliver 8A averaged over a period of 6 hours per day to your battery, thus 6 x 8 = 48A.h



remember we started by heavily over stating the current draw !


Thus the following kit should do for the stated usage:
160W solar (if you feel liking taking a risk a 100W panel may be enough 98% of the time)
105Ah battery

edit - also add a low voltage cut out, to protect the battery - available from our trusty 4x4Direct :)
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by RiyadhFortuner »

Cool, thanks

is the low voltage cutout the same as a chraging regulator
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

nope.

is a little box of tricks that is normally used with older fridges, to prevent the fridge from killing the battery


contact the guys at 4x4Direct - they should even have it on their web page :)
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by Ebersohn »

Chris, now I have another one: I installed an Aux battery with Nat Luna in the front of the Lux with 16m² cabling to the back for the 3rd battery. Bought also a Steca PR 1515 for the 2 x 80watt solar panels to help when necessary. Then.... I picked up a complete 6 month old system consisting of a gray plastic battery box, 105 Deep Cycle Deltec, 4 Harrisons including the one for the CTEK D250S Dual and a 1500 Watt continuous power Inverter on the side.
I want to keep the NL in the front for winching reasons (one day....) and I also have power points under the passenger seat for a fridge inside the cab, powered directly from the aux bat in the engine bay.
Now: Can I just connect the CTEK (via Harrisons) with the front battery to "better" charge the 3rd battery when the engine is running with no ill effects when not running?
And secondly: When using the SP's, disconnect the CTEK from the front battery but connect the 2 aux batteries in parallel to both be charged by the SP/CTEK combo? The CTEK is always connected to the 3rd battery.
Last edited by Ebersohn on Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

Piet klink my jy het te veel batterye ... :)

- the NL set up front has no bearing on your future winch. The winch gets connected STRAIGHT to the primary battery, AND the engine idles while you use the winch. Using a second battery will never be able to charge fast enough to keep up with the power the winch uses.

- connecting the Ctek to the PRIMARY battery (via brad harrison) is the ideal solution for the battery at the back. Just pre-wire the solar input to another brad harison (maybe the RED one to prevent wrong connections..) Now using the solar in camp is EASY.

- charging two batteries with a Ctek (or any other charger) ,,,,, uhm ja .... battery banks are nothing new, BUT, the way I understand it BOTH batteries needs to be near identical in every respect for this charging system to work properly .... NOT my field of expertise !
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by Ebersohn »

Thanks Chris, hehe, hybrid is the next phase! I like the LN as you can override the "intelligence" and use the aux for emergency jump and to assist the primary to winch you out of the poo in case of a stalled/dead engine. But you are right, CTEK is better for charging and battery life.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by RiyadhFortuner »

Hi Chris,

How would this work with a generator?
I actually wanna power 3 till points and a few floodlights and 3 speedpoints via a generator. Do i just need to calculate the overall voltage used?
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

RiyadhFortuner wrote:Hi Chris,

How would this work with a generator?
I actually wanna power 3 till points and a few floodlights and 3 speedpoints via a generator. Do i just need to calculate the overall voltage used?
step ONE - get a registered sparky !!

Step TWO - each device has a CURRENT draw, or some may prefer to work with the WATTAGE of each unit/item. Add these and you have the power required.

Step THREE - get a registered sparky !!

Step four - let the sparky find a DECENT genny for you !!!!

Step five - let the sparky do the wiring !! Do NOT try to do it yourself !!! You are talking about a BUSINESS, and you (the owner) will be liable for any injury or death of a worker or client !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by RiyadhFortuner »

Yes indeed, sparky is gonna do all the wiring etc.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

RiyadhFortuner wrote:Yes indeed, sparky is gonna do all the wiring etc.
any decent sparky will walk through the house with you and do a quick calc to make sure you get the appropriate size genny :)



but if you want, check the label on the back of each device - find the wattage of each device, add these up and you should be in the right ball park.

Now the fun starts !! Gennies are sold in "VA" not in "W" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


To be on the safe side - 4kVA is roughly 3kW ..... but this is a gross over simplification !!!!!!!! Again where a decent sparky will earn his money to help you size it PROPERLY :)
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by RiyadhFortuner »

Yeah, only problem is getting the sparky out to come and do the calculations. So getting it before hand would be handy and all he needs to do is the wiring. These guys can take their own time when they need to do qoutes
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by ChrisF »

RiyadhFortuner wrote:Yeah, only problem is getting the sparky out to come and do the calculations. So getting it before hand would be handy and all he needs to do is the wiring. These guys can take their own time when they need to do qoutes
not helping, I know ...


But my neighbour is a sparky, and REFUSE to do genny quotes !! 99% of the time the client just want a professional opinion on the right item, then go shopping at Makro ,,,, install it themselves, AND get all snotty when the cheap unit does not deliver .......
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by RiyadhFortuner »

Ja true. Fortunately for us we need to get the wiring done proper and besides we wouldnt do any cowboy jobs.
An electrician will be doing the wiring for The system I want to do at home with the solar panels you help me with even though I can do it.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by corne.koekemoer.39 »

Good morning, maybe this will help. What size floodlights are you talking about. The beter route to go is to power up your whole DB with a change over switch, and then you do your own load shedding. Just make sure that your change over switch is the same rating as your main switch. If it is the big 400w floodlights you talking about, you will need a 10kva genny or if it is LED floods, a 6.5kva will be fine, where you can pull up to 15A. I normally put a light in the manual units so you can see when eskom decides to work again. The change over switches is R1000 for single phase and up to R2000 for 3phase system. It's a 2 hour job and I have done a lot of these installations. Hope this helps.


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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by pietpetoors »

This morning when the power went off I was working at home. I had no deep cycle battery with me so I sommer connected the 2000 watt inverter to the Corolla's battery (646)
Added a volt meter to monitor.
My main aim was to continue with my work so I only connected my 1x PC, 1x LED screen, 1x Laser printer and 1x ADSL router.

An hour and half later I had to go to town, so I could not test it until the inverter's low battery alarm kicked in, had to go before that.

But in 1.5 Hours the battery only went from 12.1 Volt to 11.8 Volt.
I am sure it would have done the full 2 hours of the power outage.
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Re: Proposed solar electrickery system.

Post by Mud Dog »

pietpetoors wrote:This morning when the power went off I was working at home. I had no deep cycle battery with me so I sommer connected the 2000 watt inverter to the Corolla's battery (646)
Added a volt meter to monitor.
My main aim was to continue with my work so I only connected my 1x PC, 1x LED screen, 1x Laser printer and 1x ADSL router.

An hour and half later I had to go to town, so I could not test it until the inverter's low battery alarm kicked in, had to go before that.

But in 1.5 Hours the battery only went from 12.1 Volt to 11.8 Volt.
I am sure it would have done the full 2 hours of the power outage.
I did this more than just a few times last year before getting a PV back-up sorted ... it lasts the full 2 hours and still starts the vehicle afterwards, but then I wasn't including a printer.

I now keep a small 800W inverter in the work bakkie and have often used it to run drills or small angle grinders for short periods - have not yet had a situation where I've drained the battery so much that I can't start the bakkie.
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