2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

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B100
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2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Dear Friends,

Further to a previous query of mine I now need your expert input. For some time now my rear diff lock is not engaging. I have tried to get the technical specs off the web, without any joy. I am not an expert in these technical stuff so please excuse my ignorance but I will try to explain as best I can.

I am think that this diff does not work with a vacuum system but is fully electric. I will explain why I came to this conclusion in a while.

I engage 4L, push the RR Diff Lock and then nothing happens except the light (RR Diff Lock) on the dashboard flashing. I have tried to troubleshoot the problem and I now have figured out the following:

1. There is electric power on the diff lock.
2. When I push the RR Diff Lock button I can see the other lights indicators on the dash dimming a bit. To me this means that it is pulling power from the battery right?
3. On closer inspection I found that there is a small pipe (which I assume is a vacuum inlet) which fits onto the actuator ("A" on the pic) on the diff lock. This pipe was badly melted, which I repaired (see "B" on the pic).
difflock1.jpg
4. The "vacuum pipe" is just attached to the cross member with a small bracket ("C" on the pic)
difflock2.jpg
5. After repairing the pipe, the diff still did not engage but I found that when I was in 4L I would blow the gauge fuse when putting the bakkie in reverse. (yes quite weird!!!)
6. I tried to follow the electrical cables going to the engine and discovered that some of the wires were damaged (See "D" in the pic).
difflock3.jpg
7. I repaired the wires and the fuse problem went away BUT the diff is still not working.

I'm all out of ideas here...any takers?

Much appreciated!
d
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Family_Dog »

Dewald,


The IFS Hilux 4x4s all had a Gearmax (local) diff fitted except for the Raider 4x4s which had an original Toyota Diff with a computer-operated Diff lock.

More information here:


-F_D
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Thanks F_D, any idea as to what could be my problem?
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Family_Dog »

The dash lights should not dim at all, so I guess there might be an electrical short somewhere.

There are a couple of ex-Toyota places in Klerksdorp that might offer better advice than I could ever give, one in City Centre (whose name I cannot recall) and the other is Toynis, on the way to the Casino. Toynis do not seem to be listed in the phone book, I'll have to find the number for you.


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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Thanks F_D, Will give then a call and see if they can help.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Family_Dog »

Dewald, you have email with an attachment...


-F_D
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Mud Dog »

Are the other dash lights still dimming after your cable repair!
Even though power is getting to the actuator, if there is a poor earth you'll have a problem. Is there a removeable cover on the actuator itsr=elf to check the internal connections?
Is the connector socket (just before the actuator) making proper contact?

If all the above are OK you'll have to open the diff and check that the mechanics are'nt jamming. (Not 'Mike and the Mechanics'!). :wink:
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Hey Andy,

Yes the lights are still dimming. This means a poor earth right?

I checked all the electrical connections on the diff. They all seem fine.

It looks as if I can open the actuator. Seems like this will become my last resort.

Another thing I just tries was to jack up one wheel, engage 4wd and switch on the diff lock...the jacked up wheel then starts to turn slowly. Could this mean the gears aren't meshed? I'm going to jack up the other wheel now to see if the meshing is an issue?!

Thanks for all the advice so far!!
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Mud Dog »

Another thing I just tries was to jack up one wheel, engage 4wd and switch on the diff lock...the jacked up wheel then starts to turn slowly. Could this mean the gears aren't meshed? I'm going to jack up the other wheel now to see if the meshing is an issue?!
Are you doing this with the motor running!! :o: :o: ... if it meshes you'll have a disaster on your hands!! :!:

Jack up both wheels before trying this!!
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

nope the motor is not running ;)
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by esajoda »

Just remember that diff lock is only engaged when in 4L, unless you have done the mod.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

yebo...thanks

The actuator is not working at all. I think this might be an electrical issue. The dash lights still dims when I switch on the locker. Looking...looking...

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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Ok, this is where I am so far.

I took the actuator apart and it was a complete mess. The brushes were stuck, water and crap everywhere. (I will post pics tomorrow and give a better write-up).

After cleaning the actuator I fitted it back on the diff and when engaging the diff lock all works well except for the fact that the diff does not want UNLOCK now??!?!!

Any idea?
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by esajoda »

Ok Dewald, when I stripped mine to clean it I also had the same issue, here is the fix I hope, excuse my naming convention :).

When you take the actuator(your wording) you can see a piece off metal about 5cm long with gearing teeth on it, this piece of metal must be pushed to the opposite side(can't remember which), but once I did that diff lock was disingaged and it worked fine.

Hope this helps.

IS THERE A LINK SOMEWHERE TO AN ONLINE KZ-TE SERVICE MANUAL?
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Thanks for all your inputs and help!

Jose, I completely stripped the actuator and cleaned everything, regreased and put together again. When I put power to the actuator then the shaft which locks the diff turns about 160 degrees (complete turn), as if it would lock the diff. When I switch off the locker then nothing happens. It is as if the electric motor turns the locker to one side but then does not turn it back (to the unlock position).

I'm not sure if this could be an issue with the incorrect alignment of the inside gears? Otherwise it is an electric problem. I just wonder what would the motor easily turn to one side but not turn back?

I will do the write-up and pics later tonight. I surely have learned a LOT about the factory fitted diff of the Hilux!!!!!

later
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

O for the love of everything dear I just lost my full write-up which took me the better part of 35min to write. This forum board is so stupid!!!!! It allows me to write a post then when I tired to preview it wants me to log in and then I loose everything!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will re-write tomorrow if I have the patience!!!!!
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Family_Dog »

Oops... bad news. This is one spot where FireFox shines... I wrote a reply a year or so ago and the power tripped. I was fed up, to say the least. When power was restored, I went to the same message to write a reply and FF had saved everything for me, I never lost a single word...!
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FireFox ROCKS!


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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

I hear you. I'm on a Mac and use Safari...I also have Firefox and should maybe use it when posting here! Lekker slaap!
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Mud Dog »

Tip .... when that happens just click on refresh and you get it all back .... it's still there in the memory. Also tick the checkbox "log me in automatically" on the login panel. :wink:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Andy, I did. But I access this forum from my iPhone as well and I thnk there came some mixup with the cookies?? anyway, I will re-write my sad story later.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by esajoda »

B100 wrote:Thanks for all your inputs and help!

I will do the write-up and pics later tonight. I surely have learned a LOT about the factory fitted diff of the Hilux!!!!!

later
d

I too am learning by what you are experiencing, VIVA forum!!!!
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Although my problem is not completely fixed, I have learned a great deal about the diff lock on the Raider which was fitted with factory diff as explained by F_D above.
In order to remove the actuator you need to loosen three bolts (mine only had 2) – no. 12. The actuator has a metal plate protecting it in the front and this can be seen in the pic below:
Image

Remember to remove the electric plug as well as pull off the breather pipe (called the vacuum pipe in my post above) before attempting to remove the actuator. You might find that the actuator is a bit stuck. Give it a few taps with a hammer and it should easily come loose. Pull the actuator towards you in order to remove the gear from the diff which pulls the shift fork inside the diff in order to lock it.

There are two sections to the actuator which you can open and clean. The first is the housing which contains the motor and the worm gear. The other is the front section which contains the mechanical parts which drives the front gear.

I opened the top section first. This can be done by loosening three little screws. Also make sure you take off and clean the O-ring. A word of caution: when opening the top cover you will pull out the worm gear which has the motor section. There are three things you should note. Firstly, the top cover contains the three magnets which drives the motor. The magnets will thus pull out the worm gear. The motor part of the worm gear has two contact points which are kept in place by two little springs. Be careful not to shoot the springs all over the place. They are kinda important. Secondly, before removing the worm gear make a note of its position. Thirdly, the top and bottom of the worm gear has two minute bearings on which it turns. Also be careful not to lose them. You might find that after pulling out the worm gear that the bottom bearing remains inside the casing. Remove with a magnified screwdriver.

Picture below is that of the worm gear (uncleaned). Note the corroded parts. The top and bottom of the rotor contains small cavities in which the small bearings fit.

Image

Picture below show the top view of the actuator with the worm gear removed. Note the contact point with their copper pig tails. The square copper sections is where the springs fit in and the contact points in turn fits in front with the worm gear sliding through the hole which then makes contact with the contact point in order to drive the motor.

Image

After cleaning the worm gear section I carefully fitted everything back in place making sure I did not lose the bearings again (Two grown men successfully succeeded in dropping one of the bearings THREE TIMES. Which had us on our knees, noses to the ground in search of the lesser spotted bearing!!!).
I then opened the front section which contains the mechanical mechanism.

Image

When opening the front section it is NOT necessary to remove the outside gear. I would suggest that you do not remove it first. It is only held in place by a retainer clip. The reason for leaving it on is that you need to make a note of the position of the big gear. Removing the front gear will mean that you pull out each part individually and you might not notice the position of the spring and gear.

Pic below: after cleaning the mess:

Image
Inside you will notice three copper sliding contacts. These were completely covered in muck and I used a combination of steel wool, a tooth brush, a copper brush, Q20, spit, towelling and patience to clean this whole section.

Image

After cleaning it, put back together making sure the spring and wheel are in the correct position, and not forgetting the O-ring of the cover.
After I went through the whole cleaning session I refitted the actuator. After switching on the diff the motor made a complete 160 degree turn which locked the diff. My problems continued when the actuator motor would not turn back in order to unlock the diff. THUS if you ever need to unlock your diff manually, read on!

In order to unlock the diff manually you need to remove the actuator (yes I am getting quite good at this!!). Looking into the hole of the actuator gear you will notice that the gear of the sliding arm is aligned to the left:
Image

To unlock the diff take a big screw driver and push the gear to the right (passenger side in a right-hand drive car).

Image

This should unlock the diff.
(EDIT: I forgot to add that I received this tip from Martin at William's Gearbox and Diff Repairs in Rustenburg...I just randomly picked a business to phone out of the Yellow Pages and Martin was VERY helpful!!)

So where do I stand now? I took the full actuator to a local diff and gearbox shop to have a look at. The last I heard was that they had to remake a part but the owner did not explain which part. I will find out tomorrow and update this post with the reason.

Thanks for everyone’s help and advice!

Keep well
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Phew!

Ok it seems that the "part" was some bush within the mechanical section of the actuator. And NO this did not fix te problem. I eventually took my whole bakkie into the workshop which was subsequently send to the auto electrician. Apparently the diff guy could get the diff to lock but not unlock (DUH!!!!) So he is exactly where I was 7 days ago! Apparently he will have it fixed by this afternoon....yeah right!!!

Will post update later!
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Petrusd »

Hi Dewald - goeie write up.

Ek weet nie veel van olies/penetration lubes af nie, Maar as jy iets wil laat roes moet jy Q20 op dit spuit.
Koop eerder `n blikkie G70 (dis `n WM PENN produk) as jy iets wil losmaak.
Van al die soorte blikkies spray is Q20 seeker aan die onderkant van die top 100 lys.

Ps. `n Blikkie silicon spray is ook handig om te hê.

Net my 2 sent. Moet dit net nie alles op een plek spandeer nie :)
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Thanks vir die raad. Ek het einlik WD40 gebruik maar ek reken dis maar dieselfde as Q20 ne?
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Petrusd »

WD40 is ook baie goed. Dis ook een van die blikkies in my toolboks.

Ek weet nie wat dit in Q20 is wat metaal laat roes nie, ek neem aan dis die "losmaak" bestandeel in dit.

As jy jou hele huis se vensters se skaniere wil vervang dan moet jy dit met Q20 spuit...........
Bly weg van dit af.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

hehehehe...dankie vir die raad....sal maar die Q20 gebruik om die muskiete weg te jaag ;-)
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Just a quick update. As per my previous post, lo and behold the locker is not fixed. Apparently the mechanic can't get the gears on the actuator to align with that on the shift fork. Which IMHO sounds like a "I actually have no clue what to do further" excuse. I have subsequently phoned Johan Kruger at Honeydew Toyota. They are looking into the problem.....the wait continues!!!
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

FINALLY!!!!

Well I decided to take the problem in my own hand again. Actually I first did a cr@p load full of reading to try and understand all aspects of my problem. I am VERY happy to report that my diff lock is now working 100% and no thanks to any mechanic which previously worked on the car.

Right, so I asked Johan Kruger at Honeydew to see if they can troubleshoot my problem over the phone. I directed him to this site but I figured Friday at Honeydew Toyota is as busy as every night in an Irish pub and did not bother to give him a call again. So I was sitting around thinking and wondering the whole weekend and at long last decided to follow my gut feeling and look into the electronics of the diff lock. Now, I must emphasise that I knew nothing about electronic on a car, I was thus in a VERY steep learning curve. I read a lot on the Internet (see all of the links below) and I started to dissect the problem from the actuator wiring to the front. I bought myself a nifty voltmeter and crawled under the bakkie. Refer back to my post where the bakkie was APPARENTLY sent to an auto mac...which from my assessment was obviously hogwash. My test showed that one of the wired on the actuator was dead (green and yellow - looks like a normal earth wire). I figured that this must be the wired which allows the actuator to turn back to the unlock position. I remembered that I read about the diff lock conversion on the ECU of the Hilux here: http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/hilux-diff-lock-mod/index.php. So I popped the kick panel on the driver side and look what I found:
IMG_1883_2.jpg
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Some rocket scientist who previously worked on the car decided it a good idea to cut the “1” and “4” (see the first website link below for a diagram of the ECU wiring) wire of the ECU, apparently in an effort to make a bridge (for some unknown reason). Then he/she soldered the wires together again, but not before he/she used a think wire (purple in the pic below) to bridge the blue/yellow wire, but unfortunately must have become utterly confused and bridged the blue/black wire. Thus in effect he/she wired the “1” and “4” together…and THIS ladies and gentlemen is why the dim of dash light occurred every time I switched on the diff. That said I removed the stupid purple wire, fixed all the other wiring and put everything together again.
IMG_1886_2.jpg
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This pic shown the thick purple wire which was bridged to the WRONG wire!


Just to make 100% sure my actuator is in actual fact working, I used the diagrams send to me by F-D (thanks mate you helped me a lot here!!!), to test the working of the actuator using the heater relay in the fuse box of the bakkie. I wired everything together and it worked like a charm!! I refitted MY actuator (remember the guy from the diff shop put on a “spare” which he had in his shop, and VOILA!! Everything worked 100%. Got in my bakkie took it for a test drive and all is well in the land of Oz!

Right to help anyone else out there, herewith the resources which made my life a lot better:

http://www.worldpath.net/~thompson/tacoma/locker.htm - A very nice article but ignore the modification he made to the pin layout on the heater rely. I found the manual which F_D send me to be correct. You will see this gent changed the pin layout on the manual.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/95-gen-toyota-t ... unner.html - retrofit of e-locker with some nice bit of info

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz ... tuator.htm - nice write-up on the actuator.

http://www.mcnamaradiffs.com.au/difflockmech.html - cool animation of how a diff lock works

http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopi ... 6b2129773e - bits of info

http://carterswebsite.com/4runner/mods/locker/ - nice technical article on how to install an e-locker

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/electric_locker/ - wiring info on the e-locker

http://www.sonoransteel.com/phong/retro ... ocker.html - ditto
Attachments
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IMG_1897_2.jpg (76 KiB) Viewed 10933 times
Last edited by B100 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Mud Dog »

Really pleased that you got it sorted out! :thumbup: I had a strong suspicion that your problem was electrical, but looking at all the muck inside that locking unit, it's just as well you opened it all up! :wink: Hope you made a plan to keep the water out in future! :think: :wink:
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Family_Dog »

Excellent, Dewald, glad you sorted it out! This was a nasty one. One expects that the vehicle wiring has not been tampered with but when it has, it always creates a problem for the technician to sort out.

Berakah, eat your mud, because B100 will crush you!


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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by esajoda »

Well done Dewald :clap: :clap: :clap:

And thanks for all the good info that you have posted. :thumbup:
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Mr_B »

When writing longer posts/articles I prefer to use a text editor and save the doc... that way if my browser or internet conn pulls a dirty I can always copy and paste!

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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

mr b,

That is exactly what I am doing now!! Boy loosing text can be so frustrating. I once was 66 pages into a chapter which I was writing for a text book, some 27 February virus activated and I lost everything on my PC!!! I almost died! Main reason I migrated to Apple Mac!

Anyway. ..
d
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by frik »

If not mistaken I have seen a previous post where somebody suggested if you bridge those two wires your difflock will engage automatically if you select H4.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by whale »

Reading all of this really helps me a lot. Referring to a previous post of mine, I have a helluva problem sorting out my diff lock (red light just flashes on the dash, (irrespective of gear/drive/range selec tion i.e. 4H or 4L). As mentioned in a previous post, I had the bakkie at 3x different "specialists", each with his own diagnosis. So I also came back and started with the wiring...lo and behold, I found the wiring from the 2x electrical sockets on the diff (from the actuator) completely cut, with about 10cm of the wire missing!

So now I am going to do what you guys did, and trace the wiring from the diff right back to the ECU...through all relays/fuses and whatever else is in the way...because I tested the wiring from the cabin going to the rear and it seems like they are dead.

So back to the garage for me...

Thanks for the very detailed post and pics
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by pietpetoors »

I have the same problem now.
At first the diff lock did not disengaged a couple of times. I then cleaned the breather and also cleaned the actuator motor. It worked perfectly for some time. But the other day it engaged and then did not disengaged. I had to remove the actuator to disengage it manually.

I opened the motor and actuator again today.
What I find is that if I remove the big front gear and let the motor run free, I can reverse the polarity and the motor will easily run in both directions. But the moment I assemble the front part and put that big gear back, it only runs one way and then stop. If I reverse the polarity then it does not move.

To make things worse, if I measure the voltage at the plug which plugs into the difflock motor, there is no power at the two wires which supplies power to the motor.

The fuse is fine, I did check. If I push the difflock button I can hear the control box click, but no power at the back.
It was working a couple of days ago and now it is dead.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by B100 »

Pieter I think you might have a power problem going to the rear. I would suggest you follow all your electrical wiring from back to front to make sure nothing is damaged.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by pietpetoors »

Thanx, will check the wires but I did not drive any rough terrain since last Sunday when it worked the last time.

I think I might have lost my marbles. :shock2:
I see in your post you warn about the bearings, I did not notice it, so it must be somewhere on the garage floor.
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by pietpetoors »

Did anybody find a solution to the 1999-2005 Hilux diff lock which does not disengage?

I changed my motor and I cleaned the mechanism inside the diff. I though the problem was fixed, for more than a year now, but today it got stuck again.

Only way I could get it unlocked was to jack up the left rear wheel, remove the motor and manually disengage the difflock.

No amount of driving in circles, reversing or jacking up the wheels could get it to unlock.
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC with 3.4 Prado V6. Rear diff-lock, Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST Maxx, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Motorolla radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front and Mikem extended shackles at the rear, 25watt LED Spots
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Skilpad4X4 »

Pieter which diff lock is fitted . If it is the vacuum operated one try to clean the breather on the diff if it is blocked pressure is build up from the heat and it is not release the lock. Hope this will help
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Re: 2003 D/Cab Rear Diff Lock Problems (KZTE 4x4)

Post by Mud Dog »

Electrically operated locker.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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