2007 Hilux 4WD problem

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auquhollie
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2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Guy's,

Not sure if anyone on here can help or point me in the right direction. I have a 2007 3.0 Auto double cab Hilux (KUN26/D4D) and the 4wd system is giving me a headache. Basically when you engage the 4H or 4L lever you can feel the transfer box engage (cant turn shaft) but its not activating the ADD on the front diff.
Ive replaced both the ADD (had water ingress) and also the 4wd computer behind the passenger foot well. Neither have solved the issue. I have also checked the multi plugs on the 3 switches on the transfer box and all seem ok.

When i checked the multi plug on the ADD i have the following voltages

red/yellow=12v
red/white=12v
black/white=earth
red/black=12v
red=0v
yellow=0v

After all that im stumped. Im guessing when H/L gear is selected one of the trans switches makes the earth connection ?

Is there possibly a relay thats part of this system, maybe faulty ??

Any help would be appreciated

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auquhollie
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

not sure if this could be linked but several weeks ago i rebuilt the rear diff, when ide finished the ABS light was on. I assumed this was down to me removing the rear wheel speed sensors ? :slap:
Mars
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

There is a strong likelihood that the issues can be related. The difflock can only be engaged in low range. The moment you engage the difflock the ABS is disabled.
auquhollie
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Thanks Mars, my model Hilux Mk7 Kun26 has the ADD. As soon as i engage either 4H or 4L the front Diff ADD should engage and lock the front wheels, is that correct ?

Its very weird, im still getting the periodic green flashing 4wd light on the dash. Everything ive read about this on the mk7 model is down to water ingress on the ADD module. It has been replaced so cant be that ?
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

Do you get the green 4x4 flashing light coming on periodically when driving in 2WD? You are correct. The moment you shift to 4WD H the ADD should activate and lock the front diff. Did you install a new ADD?

When you engage 4WD, does the 4x4 light keep on blinking?
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

Did you measure the voltage on the ADD terminals whilst engaging 4WD? I am not sure of the pinouts on the ADD plug. One of the pins should be low and go high (12v) the moment 4WD is engaged. This activates the electric motor which moves the sleeve to lock the drive shaft. If your problem is electric that pin will not go high. If it does there is an issue with the ADD in all probability.

Use this post as reference for the description below. https://www.hilux4x4.co.za/views/viewto ... =3&t=37283. Refer to the second post in the thread for the photo’s I am referring to.

The gear with the contact points (cleaned up 1.jpg) rotates as it is driven by the electric motor to the point where the sleeve is fully engaged at which point the pin that was pulled high goes low again. This is because one of the contacts moves off the the end of the metallic traces/tracks (cleaned up 2.jpg ) embedded in the top of the ADD cover which provides the signal/indicator that the sleeve (see the photo’s in the third post, incorrectly spelled as, “Sleave in 2WD” and “Sleave in 4WD”) is fully engaged. The inside trace is ground. The two outer ones provide the signal that the add is either fully engaged or fully disengaged as one of the contacts stops conducting as it moves off the end of the trace on either end. I am not certain which is which. I am also not certain if the 4WD computer uses a high or a low signal to determine if the power to the ADD motor should be switched off as it has either fully engaged or disengaged.

I hope this helps to clarify rather than confuse.
auquhollie
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Thanks Mars, ive sent you a PM.

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auquhollie
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Right, so after a bit of investigation today we have the below, using the below schematic

Image


4WD ECU wiring
• B/Y wire-going into 4wd ECU has 12v
• R/B wire going into ECU has 12v
• Black wire going into ECU gets grounded when 4Wd is selected
• W/R wire going into ECU has 12v
• R/Y wire out of ECU has 12v
• R/W wire out of ECU has 12v
• Yellow wire out of ECU 0.01v
• Red wire out of ECU 0.01v
ADD wiring at multi plug
• R/Y wire 12v
• R/W wire 12v
• W/B wire grounded to body
• R/B wire 12v


So my understanding of the above schematic is, something someware indicates to the ECU to send 12v down the red wire to the ADD and grounds the yellow wire, activating the motor in one direction (4wd). Once 2wd is selected the ECU switches and 12v is sent down the yellow wire and the red wire is grounded reversing the motor. Does that sound right ?

Also when 4WD Low is selected the transfer indicator switch L4 position will earth out the green/white wire going to the Transmission control ECU & the Skid control ECU. Does this sound right too ? boy I wish I was an Auto spark !!!

So from everything ive checked today I can eliminate the below
ADD module
ADD multi plug
ADD to 4wd ECU wiring
4WD Transfer indicator switch and wiring


To summarise I need to find out what activates the 4wd ECU to send 12v down either the red or yellow wire to the ADD. Any takers ?
:thumbup:
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

auquhollie wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:23 pm Right, so after a bit of investigation today we have the below, using the below schematic

Image


4WD ECU wiring
• B/Y wire-going into 4wd ECU has 12v
• R/B wire going into ECU has 12v
• Black wire going into ECU gets grounded when 4Wd is selected
• W/R wire going into ECU has 12v
• R/Y wire out of ECU has 12v
• R/W wire out of ECU has 12v
• Yellow wire out of ECU 0.01v
• Red wire out of ECU 0.01v
ADD wiring at multi plug
• R/Y wire 12v
• R/W wire 12v
• W/B wire grounded to body
• R/B wire 12v


So my understanding of the above schematic is, something someware indicates to the ECU to send 12v down the red wire to the ADD and grounds the yellow wire, activating the motor in one direction (4wd). Once 2wd is selected the ECU switches and 12v is sent down the yellow wire and the red wire is grounded reversing the motor. Does that sound right ? Yes that’s correct

Also when 4WD Low is selected the transfer indicator switch L4 position will earth out the green/white wire going to the Transmission control ECU & the Skid control ECU. Does this sound right too ? Yes correctboy I wish I was an Auto spark !!!

So from everything ive checked today I can eliminate the below
ADD module
ADD multi plug
ADD to 4wd ECU wiring
4WD Transfer indicator switch and wiring


To summarise I need to find out what activates the 4wd ECU to send 12v down either the red or yellow wire to the ADD. Any takers ?
:thumbup:
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

I normally try to keep things simple, meaning I start with the basics. In my experience electrical faults are, more often than not, “mechanical” in nature. Weak or corroded connections, wires broken or exposed due to chafing, corroded or worn switches etc. The fact that the 4x4 light occasionally starts to flicker tells me that there is an occasional short giving the ecu the impression that 4wd is engaged. I would really inspect al the wiring very carefully. Here is a photo of the diagram which may help.
Image

I would start with the circuit/wiring to the “Transfer 4WD position detection” switch on the gearbox as well as to check the switch itself. You will see that that switch pulls pin6 on the 4WD module to ground when 4WD is engaged. If the black wire running between the switch and pin6 is damaged and touches the earth anywhere the 4WD module will think you are trying to engage 4WD. It is this signal that tells the 4WD module to apply 12v to the actuator to engage the sleeve.
auquhollie
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Thanks Mars, i will double check the trans/switch wiring again. Maybe ive missed something.



Last night i took a scrap wire and ran it from my body earth point and touched it onto the back of the black wire (pin6) on the ECU. My thinking if it was anything to do with the 4H switch or switch loom this would eliminate it. Nothing happed and ADD didnt activate. I then sent a 12v +/- signal down the red & yellow wires to the ADD and hey presto the ADD activated (although the green light didnt illuminate-solid)

So by this i know now that the ADD & DIFF are working fine. The same for the 4WD ECU to ADD wiring loom.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

The only way to find a fault like this is by way of elimination. Some patience and persistence helps too. You are on the right track. Some condition not being met is causing the 4WD module not to engage the ADD.

Did you ground pin 6 when 4WD was engaged?

Another question, and I realise that it may sound silly, but have you disconnected the battery for a few minutes? I cannot help but think that the ABS issue you had earlier, is somehow contributing to your problem. Disconnecting the battery for a while allows the system to reset.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Mars, when i grounded pin6 I'm not actually sure if it was in 4wd. I assumed that wouldn't matter as effectively i was bypassing the switch. Ill try it again in the morning while in 4wd.

What i done yesterday was to swap over the 4wd ECU for the spare module i have. What i noticed was the blinking green light on the dash went from a slow flashing to a rapid flashing.

Also when testing voltages on the system i noted that the red/black wire coming from the ABS unit to the ADD module only has 10.5v whilst all the other wires in the 4wd system has 13v (Battery voltage). This voltage does not change between 2H/4H or 4L !!

EDIT,
I have also disconnected the battery and will leave off for a couple hours.

The ABS issue was a weird one, scanner showed 3 wheel sensors were faulty. I removed one and checked with a MM. put it back on and reset the codes. ABS works fine now (well apart from activating at very low speeds)
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Ok, so today i tried again to ground pin6 whilst in 4wd and 2wd and it didnt make a difference.
I have checked and traced the wires coming from the 4wd switch, i also again checked continuity of the earth wire BLK/WHITE wire and also the BLACK wire at the ECU plug. checks out ok, also when switching from 2wd/4wd you can see the black wire opening & closing so switch is working fine.

Again using the power probe i sent 12v down the yellow/red wire from ECU to ADD. now, with the plug connected to the ECU nothing happens. If i remove the plug and repeat the process the ADD activates !!!

Also the black/red wire running between the 4wd ECU/ADD/ABS ECU is only sitting at 10.5v. I boosted this voltage to 12.5 with the power probe and it gave a solid illumination of the 4wd dash light, not 100% sure what or why it does this ??


Even though ive replaced the ECU with a 2nd hand one im actualy leaning towards a dodgy ECU. Perhaps the replacement was bad also ?
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by dax021 »

Have you checked the insulation of the wires, especially that one showing 10.5V? Maybe it has a small nick and is leaking volts to ground?
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

dax021 wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:01 am Have you checked the insulation of the wires, especially that one showing 10.5V? Maybe it has a small nick and is leaking volts to ground?
I have only checked the ends of the wire to be honest. Its a bloody mind field to follow the whole wire.

I just swapped my ECU into a friends vehicle and its working fine, so not the ECU. However in my friends car the black/red wire coming out of the 4wd ECU reads 12.5 volts while in 2rd. when switched to 4wd the voltage drops off.

On my car the same wire reads 10 volts and it doesnt move regardless of H or L gear. So im getting closer :celebrate:
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

Again it seems as if the issue is pointing to the ABS issue you experienced.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Mars wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:19 pm Again it seems as if the issue is pointing to the ABS issue you experienced.
Im thinking your spot on Mars however im not sure now how to elliminate it. Apart from terminating the ABS wires that are linked to the 4WD system (cut wires) ??
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

Sorry for only responding now. Check all the fuses etc. related to the ABS. Something is causing the voltage drop. Bad connection or something similar. I would only disconnect (cut) wires with the view of isolating a fault and reconnecting later.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Mars wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:06 pm Sorry for only responding now. Check all the fuses etc. related to the ABS. Something is causing the voltage drop. Bad connection or something similar. I would only disconnect (cut) wires with the view of isolating a fault and reconnecting later.
Thats ok Mars and thanks for replying.

Yeah, ive been through every fuse on all three boards (under bonnet, driver and passenger floor well) and nothing was blown. What i did notice though was the red/black wire has a connector apparently behind the glove box so i can try and disconnect that and see what that does.

I was looking at the wiring diagram and the earth for the 4wd system is marked EC which is apparently at the back of the engine ?? cant seem to find anything though. I was thinking possibly a bad earth (although the black and black/white wires both have a good MM reading with the body.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

The white and black wire should have continuity with the chassis. If it has, the earthing point should be fine. Although earthing problems can cause the most illogical faults. If I recall correctly there is an earth strap to one of the bell housing bolts i.e securing the bell housing to the engine block.
If you are referring to the black wire running from the 4WD transfer case switch to the 4WD module, then it should only have continuity with the chassis if 4WD is selected. Disconnect the plug from the module and check if the black is earthed when 4WD is selected and not earthed if not selected.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Thats right, the B/W wire has continuity 100% of the time. The Black wire only has continuity when 4wd is selected.

Mars, maybe you can answer this one for me as im not sure. The Black/red wire that goes from the 4wd ECU to the ADD and ABS ECU.

what direction is the voltage coming from ? is it being supplied from the ABS ECU going to the 4wd ECU or is it being supplied from the 4wd ECU going to the ABS ECU

Im trying to work out what the function of the black/red is
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by Mars »

The function of the B/R wire is to provide a signal to the ABS or VSC/TRC control module (depending on the model - my older D4D did not have VSC) to disable the ABS or VSC/TRC. I sold my D4D some years ago but if memory serves this happens when the rear diff-lock is engaged. This is only possible in LR.

I am really not certain of the polarity of the wire.

Interestingly, the diagram for both the ABS/VSC states that the R/B wire is connected to the Transfer Case 4WD switch although, in fact, it routes to the 4WD module. Both diagrams read “To transfer 4WD position detection switch”. I am not sure how much one can read into that.

It is also interesting to note that the R/B wire runs to the ADD module as well. One can probably disconnect the 4WD module and ADD and measure the voltage there. On the ADD actuator the R/B goes to pin 3 (and obviously pin 8 on the 4WD control module). On he ABS module it is pin 17 and on the VSC/TRC module it is pin 20.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Mars, Yes that's correct, it routes from the 4wd to both the ABS module and the ADD. In my friends vehicle the r/b wire has battery voltage (13v) and when 4WD high is selected the 13v drops off. That is were i was getting confused as i was to believe the ABS was only deactivated in 4WD low ?. I will double check again tomorrow but im nearly positive that the r/b wire at the ADD was the same voltage (10v)
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

Done some more in-depth checks today, mainly voltage checks.

Switches (checks done at connectors on the switch itself)
4wH switch (black wire) - 12v in 2wd. switch to 4wd and volt drops to zero.
4wL switch (GR/WH wire) - 12v in 2wd. switch to 4wl and volt drops to zero
4w neutral (WH/GR wire) - continuity with ground only when 4wd lever in neutral

4WD ECU
- red/black wire - 12v in 2wd. engage ADD with a test probe onto yellow & red wire and 12v on R/B wire drops to zero as it should.

- red wire 12v in 2wd and 2v in 4wd
- yellow wire 12v in 2wd and 2v in 4wd

What i tried to eliminate the switches was to disconnect them and i connected a small loop of wire to the connectors. Essentially sending them to ground. That didnt make a difference.

What i did note was if i remove the ECU plug and send 12v using a test probe on the yellow & red wire the ADD activates and locks the front axle. Now, if i re-connect the ECU plug and try with the test probe again it does not work. So basically using the test probe only works if the plugs removed.

Getting so close to just wiring the yellow and red wires upto a two way switch and being done with it !!!
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by popogazas »

Hello, i ran into same problem with my 2007 hilux.. Maybe someone found solution? Because as more i check more convinced i am that 4wd control computer died...
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by popogazas »

Ok So after 12 hours of digging. I started to check 4wd computer itself. Some things that could help others. First, i got it working by shorting Load resistor (see attachment) . I am waiting for that part at the moment. As i dig deeper and deeper, it came clear, that 4WD control unit, has to be compatible with front diff actuator itself. If you change one part from one vehicle and another part from second vehicle it can still not work. 4WD control unit measures the load of actuator motor, and if it goes beyond limit, it will not work. How to tell if two parts are compatible i have no idea.. This caused me a lot of problems, because i took working 4wd computer from another car and it didn't work in my. As for 4wd computer pin 8 it gets info from diff actuator if it's in 4x4 or 2x4 mode actuator also tells this to ABS unit (sometimes called skid control unit). Basically to test 4wd computer you have to put pins 1,2,5 to the ground, and pin 10 +12v you will hear relay ticking. If not LED with 470 ohm resistor connected from pin 7 to +12v should be blinking, which indicates error in module itself.
Attachments
for check
for check
connected for check
connected for check
load resistor
load resistor
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by auquhollie »

I just got to the bottom of my issue today. Turns out the new ADD I installed was faulty. Changed it today for a known good one and it works fine. I never suspected this to be faulty as it was replaced with a new one. Just goes to show.
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Re: 2007 Hilux 4WD problem

Post by khanmozee5 »

Hi

I have been having the 4wd intermittently engaging, where can I get an ADD from?


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