Cheap tips to soften SFA suspension

simonbruton · Post by **simonbruton** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:23 pm

Sure I might get an earfull for this but I have started advertising my SFA hilux D/C as my wife and I are planning a family and we are finding the leaf springs just too uncomfortable - particularly on the (poor condition, lumpy) tar roads within our town that form our regular commutes. I do think there is something up with my springs that they are particularly uncomfortable as I grew up in two Hilux SFA's and never remember it being a major issue, but we always knew there were more comfortable 4x4's.

So here is a last ditch effort for any advice or ideas out there on cheap ways (we need to save any spare cash for family expenses etc) to soften my hiluxs' ride.
And no, I cannot afford Old Man Emu or Iron Man etc for R13K plus. I am not willing to even spend R4000 plus on gas shocks using my existing springs as I think it is unlikely to transform the ride considerably, then I am R4000 poorer when trying to find another vehicle.
I have tried lubricating the springs but that has made no noticable difference. My springsmith has offered to put discs between the blades but I am not convinced it will make that much difference iether.

One idea I have had is to take a blade out the front leaf springs but then fit Camil front shocks to compensate. Almost having a half leaf, half coil setup - might work. This is also a cost risk as it may not work, or I might break a blade.

I have driven in other vehicles with leaf springs on the front and they are bearable (ie series 3 landrover or 60 series cruiser) - how did toyota get it so wrong? And don't say it is so the Hilux can take a heavy load - the DC is only rated at 500Kgs + 4 people in the front. Even on holiday with a full load, it is better but still need a kidney belt. I think the Double cab should have been fitted with a more comfortable spring setup than the single cab 1 tonner.

Talk about a difficult customer!

My ultimate solution (as I do love my hilux) would be to get a coil spring conversion done at ultimate Auto Works (closed down?) but that costs more than OME I am sure, and I live in KZN not Cape Town. Currently planning to sell or swop my hilux for something with a solid front axle with coil springs (Cherokee XJ 4.0L, or Discovery) or a 60 series cruiser wagon (Leaf springs, but they seem more comfortable).

Besides winning the lotto or throwing in the towel and buying / swoping (see my ad on the website) does anyone have any ideas.

Thanks

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:39 pm

And don't say it is so the Hilux can take a heavy load - the DC is only rated at 500Kgs

No it's not for the load, but to constantly withstand the shocks of regular off-road applications. Yep, the old SFA's are notorious bone shakers without a suspension upgrade, but they are still one of the most rugged and reliable vehicles .... you would be making a serious mistake to sell. Even if you were to do nothing to the suspension, you need only take things a little easier in the last two months of your wife's pregnancy when she is in the vehicle, not a big sacrifice at all. Once the 'little one' arrives, it doesn't matter any more ... they love a rocking ride, and in fact most often sleep easier with it.

That said, bear in mind that most of your ride comfort is determined by the front suspension, and this is where you need to concentrate more of your attention. First have your current shocks tested by someone you can trust that will not just tell you the shocks are buggered for the sake of selling you new ones. Then if necessary, start by replacing only the two front ones .... phone around for the best prices over the counter ... anyone can replace a shock, you don't need to be a mackie to do it ... very simple and straight forward. You could save a little on labour.
Now you need to address the springs themselves. You say that you've lubricated them ... how did you do it? merely oiling them is not an answer. One of the things that make OME superior is that they have Teflon sliders between the leaves and they have grease sockets on the springs. You don't have to have Teflon (or any other material) slider discs fitted, although it helps. Try this .... jack up the front of the vehicle on the chassis till the wheels are hanging free and put jack stands securely in place so that you can work safely. Take a fairly large flat screw driver and starting at one side, force it between each leaf one at a time, prying them apart as far as you can and force grease into the gap between them. when removing the screwdriver each time, try not to let the leaves snap shut ... could become more messy. Do this for each leaf, front and back of each leaf-pack and on both sides. A grease gun helps but is not essential ... you can force it in with your finger, just don't get it pinched. Also, a graphite grease gives better results and if you feel a little extravagant, "Copper slip" is even better.

Side for side, take the stand out and lower the body till the wheel touches the ground, and hold it there with the jack. Release the shackle bolts one at a time, grease them and put them back. If the shackle bushes are buggered, they should be replaced ( the poly-urethane one's are not expensive at all from Midas or Autozone). If you feel confident enough, do the bushes on the front spring-hanger as well. Repeat the whole exercise on the rear springs as well, as it will make an additional small difference, and should be done anyway. None of the above should cost an arm and a leg, taking into account your individual circumstances. Mostly only some time is required. :)

If this does'nt improve your ride comfort to a bearable level, then a suspension upgrade is the next step and you will have to consider your options.

chopper · Post by **chopper** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:47 pm

Simon,
I looked at your "for sale" input - its a lovely vehicle and it would be a pity to let go of her!

Harold · Post by **Harold** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:14 pm

Question on Mud Dogs tip for greasing the springs...................
Would the combination of grease with dust & grime not turn into a highly effective grinding paste.

Surely regular application of a silcon spray would be be more effective?

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:26 pm

Let some air out of your tyres. It helps a bit...

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:38 pm

Harold wrote:Question on Mud Dogs tip for greasing the springs...................
Would the combination of grease with dust & grime not turn into a highly effective grinding paste.

Surely regular application of a silcon spray would be be more effective?

Hi Harold .... I also suspected that it would, but OME recommended regular greasing of the leaves when I had them fitted about 10 / 11 yrs ago, which I have been doing on 6 mnth to a year intervals, depending on the usage. No problems at all with "grinding paste" that I have noticed ... I suppose that the leaves are too tight together for the dirt to penetrate. I do recall one occasion that I had left it for a longer time than usual, and the deterioration of ride comfort prompted me to do it again. They were dry as hell and the new grease that worked it's way out over the next few days was brown with rust, but not gritty.

Yes Thys, good tip as well .... as long as it's not under inflated on the tar for extended periods (excessive tyre shoulder wear will occur). I think that most of us tend to over inflate anyway.

chopper · Post by **chopper** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:25 pm

Andy,
What pressure are you running your 30x9.5s on? (normal commuting)

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:07 pm

2.1 bar

simonbruton · Post by **simonbruton** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:59 pm

Thanks for all the tips.

I think I may have come up with a cost effective solution to improve comfort which will enable me to keep my hilux. I've been speaking with the guys at Camil Suspension (http://www.camilsuspensions.co.za" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), and my local springsmith who is experienced in dealing with leaf spring setups.

Camil say that fitting the Camil shocks will make it more comfortable even without removing a blade from the front springs. The coil spring on the Camil shock takes some of the weight of the vehicle off the leaf spring, and lifts the suspension 30-40mm.

Following discussion with Camil, my local springsmith and my own thoughts, I can foresee this having a few positive effects on a SFA hilux:
>The vehicle lightly rides on the coil springs of the camil shocks, so you have the advantage of a 'semi-coil' suspension action. The coils will take up light bumps more softly.
>If your front springs are a bit sagged or have negative camber, the 30mm or so lift will improve their action.
>The leaf springs themselves are also not under as much tension, so should give a softer ride (not too sure on this one as a heavily loaded SFA is more comfortable than a lightly loaded one).
>On the rear the lift will raise the weight (top leaves) further off the bottom load blade, which will soften the ride (see pic below).

In terms of the last point I have personal experince of this as our company vehicle (a KZTE) with Camils only on the rear, has a much more articulate and softer back axle ride, and that is with no load at all. When you go over a short, sharp speed hump at an angle at low speed, the vehicle rocks left to right less violently.

Going to investigate this a bit further. Perhaps I can be the guinea pig and report the results to other forum members with SFA hilux's who wish to improve their ride without going the full OME route (Camil will cost less than half OME). If fitting Camils on the front alone doesnt improve the ride enough, then stage 2 will be to remove one blade from the front, which my springsmith seems comfortable with doing.

Reply below if you are interested in the results

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:32 pm

I think you will find that your ride is going to be even stiffer .....

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:50 am

Just some useless info on leaf springs...

Last week thurs I noticed that something in my suspension was making a annoying creaking/knawing sound... so I decided to lubricate everything I could from the outside. For this purpose I bought a tin of Castrol Flick Easing Oil... actually just took a chance because it said on the tin it has excellent corrosion penetration quality... so Friday afternoon I got under the bakkie and sprayed the leaf springs and all other exposed suspension parts liberally with this stuff... drove 50km on Friday afternoon and another 50km or so on Monday... all the noises are gone and the suspension is much more supple... now this is where things get interesting... on the way home on Monday I noticed a slight knocking when I went around corners, yesterday Allan and myself investigated and found that the draglink is now touching the suspension U bolt... so how on earth has this happened??? This penetrating lube has stopped the blades from binding and my bakkie is standing slightly higher to the point that the draglink angle has changed and is now knocking the U bolt!

More about Castrol Flick Ease Oil:
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/liveasse ... il_TDS.pdf

Now I have to have to draglink modded to compensate!

Moral of the story... everything works better when well lubricated!

Mr B

simonbruton · Post by **simonbruton** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:20 am

Selling my 1988 hilux and found a 1993 Cherokee 4.0 with soild front axle and coil springs. Coil springs - just what I wanted. My kidneys cringe every time I look at an SFA now!

One day when I'm rich and famous (still at the bottom of the corporate ladder!) I will buy a SFA hilux when I can afford to modify it properly and make it comfortable AND good offroad (OME + gas shocks etc.) Currently too busy climbing the ladder for 4x4 trips, so why bounce around in the ultimate 4x4, but needing a kidney belt. I use a motorbike for the daily commute so petrol won't be too much of a problem (I hear it is going up again!)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:33 am

Simon, I've got 2 friends with Jeep 4L's... the one seems to give very little hassles, and is pretty reliable and capable... it's got a few very nice mods on... expensive mods... the other one... yes the other one... seems to be a gremlin infested Jeep... this poor chap has spent so much money on keeping the vehicle on the road... recently he spent 5K on a flex plate(auto box clutch) and waited 3 months for the parts to arrive in SA, and this from the agents... about 3 weeks ago he had the flex plate fitted, only for this brand new plate to crack as well... and so it goes on...

What am I trying to say... be very careful when buying a second hand Jeep... some are trouble prone duds, others give there owners endless join... problem is... how will you know which yours is?

Mr B

pampoen · Post by **pampoen** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:27 pm

Hope all goes well with your plans Simon!

Jeeps are exellent family cars and good cruisers but dont come crying when youve dropped your fourth gearbox and the dam electric seat wont move back!!!!

ismail · Post by **ismail** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:39 pm

Mr B, where in the Cape did you get the castrol flick ease and how much was it? Most of the guys just give a blank stare when i ask for it.

Ismail

simonbruton · Post by **simonbruton** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:44 pm

Thanks Mr B and Pampoen for your comments and all those who have helped me with my hilux on the forum. Hoping my new 4x4 choice works out well. I have also heard mixed reports on the Cherokees, so hoping mine was well constructed and well looked after. One owner most of its life and it looks to be in good shape.

My 1988 hilux would have needed old man emu (R15K?), aircon (R5K?), a 7MGE conversion (R8K?) and various other fixes to steering box, drivetrain (R2K) to have the same basic specs and roadworthy condition as the 1993 cherokee. That adds up to R30K, I paid R35k for the cherokee so would have had to spend the value of the cherokee on the hilux to get it to the same level of comfort. And you never get that money back. I sold the hilux for R43K, and the cherokee is in better condition. I will always be a hilux fan, but in my current situation the maths just works out, so I can afford to spend a bit on it when needed.

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice during my days of hilux ownership

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:57 pm

Having a Jeep does not mean that you are no longer a member here... please stick around... post so trip reports... give us your long term experiences/feeling with the Jeep... like I said before we've got 2 of these 4L Sport beasts in our circle of 4x4 friends... when they are running 100%, they are formidable vehicles... really comfy... and the fuel consumption of the 4L 6Pot 130kw engine is pretty good...

Hmmmm... maybe it's time to sell Bolt for a more luxurious option...

Mr B

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:58 pm

ismail wrote:Mr B, where in the Cape did you get the castrol flick ease and how much was it? Most of the guys just give a blank stare when i ask for it.

Ismail

Ismail, sorry dude missed your post... Goeie Hoop Onderdele(GoodHope Spares)... Brackenfell... about R50 a tin...

Mr B

ismail · Post by **ismail** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:02 pm

Thanks B, gonna get some over the weekend.

simonbruton · Post by **simonbruton** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:56 am

Thanks Mr B, I'll pop in from time to time. There are quite a few active Cherokee XJ owners on SA4x4community and I also see many familiar faces over there from this forum.

On that website they have a 'database' of fuel consumption figures from over 450 S' African 4x4 owners. I have imported it into a spreadsheet, deleted errors/nonsense and added filters so you can explore different vehicles with different engines. Hilux 2.7i (non VVTI) sonsumption figures average around 11-15l/100km from open road to town, Discovery 1 V8 15 -20 and Cherokee XJ 4.0 12-16. Some owners with 33" tyres and high lift kits show extreme consumption figures across all vehicles so you have to watch out for that(they should have added a column for modification description). Hardly any 4Y entries unfortunately - all the 4Y owners stick to this forum! So considering the cherokee 4.0 does 0-100 in 9.5 seconds that fuel consumption is not bad. Will see in time if mine achieves that. Just fitted a Wildcat branch as the original was badly cracked, collecting it today and can't wait to hear the straight six in full song.

Sven · Post by **Sven** » Sat May 01, 2010 6:46 pm

just a short note on the camil/leaf string configuration, i have that exact configuation on the front of my lux, and to tell the truth im not happy with it. yes on a visual perspective it has raised the front alot, this however does nothing to articulation, only approach angle and slight break over. my biggest problem is that a 4y has very little weight behind it so it doesnt feel like i get any travel out of the system, welding my axle to the chassis seems like it would do the same. so i feel that it might be good for the rear but i would like to personally remove it and go for a standard shock and leaf spring.

on the note of the Cherokee, good luck with it mate, i have a friend with one and he swears by it, yes it also has a few imperfections but on cars older then 15 years it will happen. by far a very comfortable choice. i dont mind the hard ride though so i will be keeping my lux and hopefully buying a fleet of them one day, all the loved ones that i dont want to see being abused.

Traveler · Post by **Traveler** » Sat May 01, 2010 10:13 pm

Anybody considered washing the suspension with Sta-Soft?

Sven · Post by **Sven** » Sat May 01, 2010 10:15 pm

very very wise!!! :-)
i would opt for KY gel?

Traveler · Post by **Traveler** » Sat May 01, 2010 10:24 pm

Sven wrote:very very wise!!! :-)
i would opt for KY gel?

That might only ensure a less choppy and smoother ride.

Numbnut · Post by **Numbnut** » Sun May 02, 2010 1:03 am

Mr_B wrote:Just some useless info on leaf springs...

Last week thurs I noticed that something in my suspension was making a annoying creaking/knawing sound... so I decided to lubricate everything I could from the outside. For this purpose I bought a tin of Castrol Flick Easing Oil... actually just took a chance because it said on the tin it has excellent corrosion penetration quality... so Friday afternoon I got under the bakkie and sprayed the leaf springs and all other exposed suspension parts liberally with this stuff... drove 50km on Friday afternoon and another 50km or so on Monday... all the noises are gone and the suspension is much more supple... now this is where things get interesting... on the way home on Monday I noticed a slight knocking when I went around corners, yesterday Allan and myself investigated and found that the draglink is now touching the suspension U bolt... so how on earth has this happened??? This penetrating lube has stopped the blades from binding and my bakkie is standing slightly higher to the point that the draglink angle has changed and is now knocking the U bolt!

More about Castrol Flick Ease Oil:
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/liveasse ... il_TDS.pdf

Now I have to have to draglink modded to compensate!

Moral of the story... everything works better when well lubricated!

Mr B

Now were have I read that statement before???

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Cheap tips to soften SFA suspension

Cheap tips to soften SFA suspension

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