HR related concerns

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:56 pm

So here goes:

Two and a half weeks before work permit expires, I inform supervisor via our Occurance Book in the office, which he also signed to aknowledge. The permit is my responsibility and without it, I cannot access work. Normally supervisor will then print out permit forms, which after he signs - approving the permit application, I take them to Permit office to apply for new permit. New permit takes about 3 - 4 days to process, a process which also includes the SAPS criminal checks. By following day, no paperwork. By end of shift (2 days and 2 nights) I remind him again, this is a new supervisor by the way who used to work in our department and is familiar with the process. Off I go to my off days. Next cycle I'm back at work and again reminding him of my permit. Nothing. Eventually I seek help from his superior, our HOD, who then assists with the application - no hassles, and no questions asked.

By next cycle I can only come to work for one day, on which day in the evening permit will have expired. Again I make a note, and am now awaiting new permit but cannot report for work. During this time I attend a few meetings with HOD and supervisor on this matter, during my off days (which normally I would have claimed over-time for coming through, but I do not), even also came for long service awards (10 years - which both HOD and supervisor attended).

When doing monthly time sheets at the end of the month, supervisor then informs me I will get unpaid leave for not showing up for work when I had no permit

(this accounts for R7k on my payslip when I eventually find out

) to which I reply that I beg to differ with such decision since I have written proof of my attempts to sort my permit out way before it expires. Since I did not find joy with HOD, I log a formal grievance with manager against supervisor last Thursday on this matter. Company procedure says by 3 days I should have a reply and to this day nothing. Today I send him (manager) a gentle reminder. I am mad as hell

since I feel unfaily treated.

How do I go about this without putting my job on the line, or sounding out of line while fighting for my rights? Employee Relations department is also not yielding any fruits

Stef · Post by **Stef** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:11 pm

Join Solidarity and let them sort it out...imagine their surprise when they find out you're with Solidarity...

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:15 pm

Ouch! The price of incompetence is high, and since the incompetence is theirs it's they that must cough (you said you have all the necessary written proof of your efforts to resolve the permit issue timeously).

Make an appointment with management (during working hours) and sit down explaining again how in spite of numerous efforts on your part to get it done, your supervisor and HOD sat on their hands, a lack of action on their part that you now have to suffer the consequences for. Unfair. Explain that you cannot accept having to suffer for the inaction of others and that you need to be reimbursed for the unfair deduction. Explain that you prefer the matter to be resolved in house as it should be but that if it cannot be, then you have no recourse but are being forced to seek arbitration.

It should never have got that far.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:20 pm

Agree. To be precise I have now a file full of supporting documents and OB entries. Tonight I sent manager a gentle reminder for a way forward, tomorrow will call him and try and arrange a meeting. Sounds crazy but it's true

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:04 pm

Eish, whichever why it goes, it is not a nice place to be!

I believe you will keep things civilised!

Strongs!

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:36 am

Eish Donkey... sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope it does get resolved soon.

Wish I could be of more help

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:46 am

Will keep you posted, going home now.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:31 am

+1 for the Solidarity approach.

sober minded group.

Post by **george** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:50 am

Best of luck Donks.
Just a question.Why do you need a work permit?

JEEPIE · Post by **JEEPIE** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:09 am

Donkey wrote:Will keep you posted, going home now.

shouldnt you be going to work ?

sorry to hear about this dilema
but i suggest be firm , state your case with full details of events to senior management
this could possible turn out (if you need to go the route) of victimization

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:11 am

george wrote:Best of luck Donks.
Just a question.Why do you need a work permit?

I work in a restricted area (airfield) in an airport and as such need a permit.

Post by **george** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:25 am

I work in a restricted area (airfield) in an airport and as such need a permit.

Surely in that case is is your employers responsibility also.How do they handle your co-workers.Do they get their permits easier than you?

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:38 pm

I am the first one to have an expired permit since new supervisor started, so I cannot say. But nonetheless today I forwarded our manager all the evidence proving I had acted in time, and luckily I document my communications, this included a copy of the company policy on abscondment (just to refresh their minds) in which case I was to have recieved a formal company letter declaring that I have indeed absconded and have had to sign aknowledging reciept thereof. Nothing of the sorts happed. It was just a one liner email from supervisor saying my not showing up at work as a result of my permit will attract unpaid leave, and that it did. HR manager was to have been served such form and approved it, but like I say there was no such form.

I will give him until next Monday afternoon to feedback to me, failing which I will escalate it to the airport manager's office. Then eventually CCMA if it leads me that way, just following (and exhausting) company channels first.

Post by **george** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:57 pm

Sound like your supervisor need a kick up his Donkey

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:05 pm

He does but then you'll see how quickly they react if it's other way around

Post by **Haboob** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:53 pm

Good luck & keep us posted...This is a Zimbabwe in the making

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:21 pm

Haboob wrote:Good luck & keep us posted...This is a Zimbabwe in the making

Post by **LouisZ** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:03 am

Grievance Form in? I see you gave in Documents timeously, so is over 30 days. Go for the CCMA.

KOBUSL · Post by **KOBUSL** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:35 am

Good luck.

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:34 pm

By now I would of stripped my nut

Good luck

Taljaag · Post by **Taljaag** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:09 pm

Good luck Donkey.Like Louis said its time to go for CCMA.

Post by **FIRSTGEER** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:32 pm

Good luck and don't back down

Stef · Post by **Stef** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:35 pm

Sounds like you're kicking ass

(pun intended)

Buffel 1 · Post by **Buffel 1** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:38 am

Sensitive issue this.

As the incompetence is with your superiors and they will make life difficult if they get reprimanded over this.

Write a letter to the highest brass in HR and copy MD or at least a director stating that you will refer the matter as you feel the decision taken is unfair and you have exhausted your internal company process.

Your HR should realize you are serious but not feel threatened.
If still no answer you have no option but to take out the big guns and go to CCMA

Good luck

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:57 pm

Manager eventually replied, and the sitting is on the 26th in his office, together with supervisor and HOD, company policy dictates that such meeting or rather feedback should be in 3 days, but I'm letting them do as they wish, more ammo for me in case it does not get resolved and I have to go higher or even CCMA route. Thanks for the advise

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:01 pm

you are a patient man ....

maybe they should be happy you are a donkey and not a prancing horse .....

I am mostly a patient man, but when people mess with my livelyhood .............

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:11 pm

I am patient with a lot of things, except barber shop q's, not sure why though. I'll survive. Thing is I know myself - if I were to react I'd most likely end up fired or something ugly like that, so it's more containing myself and focusing on the outcome.

Remember in life, say you react badly to your partner and end up causing GBH for instance, when the world looks at the situation, they do not look at what she did to push you there and for how long she's been at it, but rather at the outcome of what you did. I never want to correct things I've done or said because I acted in anger or was reacting to something I could have walked away from and think clearly at a later stage.

Froll · Post by **Froll** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:51 pm

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:59 am

Not a lekker place to be - If you loose your cool it can quickly cost you your job; either directly or indirectly.

If you let them gat away with this, next time will be worse and you are already out of pocket.

You surely know it: Tread lightly but very firm!

Oupa Stig · Post by **Oupa Stig** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:02 am

I admire your patience, Donkey!
My short fuse had cost me a good and well paying job. Now I work for myself, try to have patience with my 2 staffmembers... Less money, more bull, but atleast if I screw up I take responsibility... But I miss the bucks! Hang in there!

mushroom · Post by **mushroom** » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:19 am

Not a lekka situation to be in Donkey, you find yourself walking a fine line. They have contravened the company policy in terms of the window period on grievance resolution, and I agree with your thinking to let them (for now) do it at their own pace. However, should (and Im sure it will) the grievance fall in your favour, I would be very inclined to request the interest on the R7k to be added to the backpay amount. I would also claim the OT you put in to meet with the oke on your off day (can you claim the petrol for that unwarranted trip?)

All your ducks are clearly in a row, and should things go pear shaped on the 26th the next line of recourse could be to claim "constructive dismissal" - as the working relationship has reached a point whereby the employee cannot continue their duties due to the behavior of the employer (not filling your permit forms in timeously- thereby putting your employment in jeopardy)....

Personally I would exhaust ALL internal channels, and leave the CCMA as a last resort - the relationship after a CCMA session is soured, and that leaves you looking for another job - rather get the supervisor looking for another job via performance management by his superior...

Good luck bro

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:03 am

mushroom wrote:Not a lekka situation to be in Donkey, you find yourself walking a fine line. They have contravened the company policy in terms of the window period on grievance resolution, and I agree with your thinking to let them (for now) do it at their own pace. However, should (and Im sure it will) the grievance fall in your favour, I would be very inclined to request the interest on the R7k to be added to the backpay amount. I would also claim the OT you put in to meet with the oke on your off day (can you claim the petrol for that unwarranted trip?)

All your ducks are clearly in a row, and should things go pear shaped on the 26th the next line of recourse could be to claim "constructive dismissal" - as the working relationship has reached a point whereby the employee cannot continue their duties due to the behavior of the employer (not filling your permit forms in timeously- thereby putting your employment in jeopardy)....

Personally I would exhaust ALL internal channels, and leave the CCMA as a last resort - the relationship after a CCMA session is soured, and that leaves you looking for another job - rather get the supervisor looking for another job via performance management by his superior...

Good luck bro

Thank you for all inputs gents, I have no choice but to keep my cool under the circumstances. Please say a bit more about the constructive dismissal?

mushroom · Post by **mushroom** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:49 am

Hi Donkey, to quote ...

"The basics are that constructive dismissal may be defined as "a situation in the workplace, which has been created by the employer, and which renders the continuation of the employment relationship intolerable for the employee - to such an extent that the employee has no other option available but to resign."

Its quite complicated but have a look here :
http://www.labourguide.co.za/workplace- ... missal-218" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is a good website - and every employees should read it...

If you need any more advice I can get our national HR manager to answer some questions..

Ciao

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:53 am

Thank you James, think let's first see how the 26th turns out,

GI Jane · Post by **GI Jane** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:08 am

Donkey wrote:I am patient with a lot of things, except barber shop q's, not sure why though. I'll survive. Thing is I know myself - if I were to react I'd most likely end up fired or something ugly like that, so it's more containing myself and focusing on the outcome.

Remember in life, say you react badly to your partner and end up causing GBH for instance, when the world looks at the situation, they do not look at what she did to push you there and for how long she's been at it, but rather at the outcome of what you did. I never want to correct things I've done or said because I acted in anger or was reacting to something I could have walked away from and think clearly at a later stage.

Tumelo see what you'r saying, and think that you have a very mature way of dealing with situations. Burning bridges that can't be rebuilt is no way to deal with situations, but then when you've also followed correct procedures and still had no results that is also not right. You appear to have been really reasonable about what is happening, but not being able to work and earn an income because others have not fulfilled their responsibilities is unfair. So if you don't get a satisfactory resolution you should definitely approach the CCMA or a Labour lawer to assist you to get what is rightly yours. I am sure that you also realize that in some cases when you have followed that route, it may be held against you further down the line. Hope your situation is resolved very soon in a fair and just manner.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:17 pm

You should also claim that broken windshield / bodywork repairs, since you had to let your insurance lapse as a result of your short payment.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:51 pm

Again thanks for the advise, will keep you posted indeed.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:20 pm

Hi Donkey

What was the outcome of your meeting?

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:29 pm

Sometimes you wonder why should things be elevated to such levels. But cut a long story short, my supervisor was put in his place by the manager, citing that this issue should have never been blown so much out of proportion (I felt so small on his behalf). He was reminded to review his notes, since he went to a leardership course in what the manager said was "silly".

Unpaid leave days will be reversed

, manager together with HOD will sort out the paperwaork and submit to HR , thank you all for your comments and advise. I did not ask for any interest or the like because I had made my point and that was enough.

JEEPIE · Post by **JEEPIE** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:52 pm

dont you wanna run for president ?
maybe we will get somewhere then

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:08 pm

JEEPIE wrote:dont you wanna run for president ?
maybe we will get somewhere then

not me and politics.

Froll · Post by **Froll** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:49 pm

Glad you got it all sorted out.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:53 pm

Welldone you did your homework very well

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:56 pm

Glad to hear it's getting sorted. Just sad that it had to be such a painful process

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:33 pm

GLAD you got sorted !!

PS - not the first time you have been nominated for politics .... I would vote for you !!

Post by **Family_Dog** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:55 pm

Well done, Donkey!!

We, your family, are all happy that this has worked out for you :)

-F_D

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:25 pm

great outcome!!!

pity that you had to go through the painfull prosses

and will also vote for you!!!

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:16 pm

Great to hear!

Pity about the hassle you had to go through .....

Post by **Haboob** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:37 pm

my supervisor was put in his place by the manager,

Glad your problem is all sorted

Just hope you gonna get down to some serious work & be an asset to the country

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:14 am

Thank you. And what I keep saying is in fact I do love my job and what I do here, so when such things happen they do pain me but I do rise above people and their issues.

JEEPIE · Post by **JEEPIE** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:35 am

Donkey wrote:Thank you. And what I keep saying is in fact I do love my job and what I do here, so when such things happen they do pain me but I do rise above people and their issues.

you must be one of the few

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:44 am

Glad you got it sorted!!! Aanhouer wen!

ROBERT · Post by **ROBERT** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:46 pm

Donkey for president.

then all hiluxclub members could get free wheels :wink2:

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:27 pm