A case for higher charging voltages

[3RZ]

Eric this one is specially for you, we had a discussion quite a while back around regulator and charging voltages, at the time I could not find the article I was refering to - well while loading Windows7 on my pc I was forced to do a cleanup and found the article.

It makes for some interesting reading, the argument is for the use of charging voltages around 14.5 Volt and above.

Car Batteries Are Not 12 Volts.doc

(70.5 KiB) Downloaded 235 times

[Mr_B]

Thanks Willem, makes sense... I just fitted my lux with a new sealed Probe calcium-calcium type battery... the online docs state a charging voltage of 14.2 to 14.4 volts is ideal(to properly charge the bat to full), but my alternator/regulator seems to stay at 13.6 to 13.8 volts... the regulator may well be designed for the older lead battery requiring 13.8 volts charge...

I tested my wife's Golf 4 charge voltage, it remains constant at 14.4V, no matter what rpm the engine is at, unlike my bakkie's where the charge volts increases with rpm increase... this with a new regulator...

So the questions now are...


How do I go about getting the charging voltage up to 14.4 volts... can one buy an adjustable regulator for the Bosch alts used in the SFA's?? Or can one design/built a circuit to up the voltage, after the regulator... kind of like external post regulator?? I have thought about doing a mod/conversion to fit a new gen alt to the lux... what would u do?

Mr B

[Family_Dog]

Excellent read, Willem, and I have to admit to a chuckle at the official MB reply ;).

The Benton chargers seem to have a very wide-spread set of parameters, because they seem to be able to charge anything. The battery in White Fang is now over six years old and in spite of WF standing for long periods of time and having a Tracking device connected to it, the Benton keeps its battery optimally charged. Before I used the BX charger, the battery used to run flat after four days of standing, due to the Netstar draining the battery.

Thanks for the post!


-F_D

[Family_Dog]

So the questions now are...


How do I go about getting the charging voltage up to 14.4 volts... can one buy an adjustable regulator for the Bosch alts used in the SFA's?? Or can one design/built a circuit to up the voltage, after the regulator... kind of like external post regulator?? I have thought about doing a mod/conversion to fit a new gen alt to the lux... what would u do?

Mr B

Mr B, Scott (Scooter) did a mod like this a couple of years ago. Basically, one fits a diode in series with the VR earth leg. Do a search for it, it is discussed here somewhere.


-F_D

[cprinsloo]

So the questions now are...


How do I go about getting the charging voltage up to 14.4 volts... can one buy an adjustable regulator for the Bosch alts used in the SFA's?? Or can one design/built a circuit to up the voltage, after the regulator... kind of like external post regulator?? I have thought about doing a mod/conversion to fit a new gen alt to the lux... what would u do?

Mr B

Mr B, Scott (Scooter) did a mod like this a couple of years ago. Basically, one fits a diode in series with the VR earth leg. Do a search for it, it is discussed here somewhere.


-F_D

http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/alternator/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Scooter]

Mr B, the mod works well and since regulators aren't that expensive I did the mod to two units and thus carry a spare with me on long trips. I also carry a standard one with just in case but have not needed to replace the first one.
The regulator does need a bit of a kick start in the morning in the way of a bit of revving and perhaps that is a sign that it is on its way out but once warmed up it works fine.

The other option is an adjustable regulator. They are available but no in SA that I have found anyway. There are numerous places that sell them on the net.

http://www.davebarton.com/AdjustableVoltage.html
http://www.wai-wetherill.com/

[Mr_B]

Thanks Scott, I'm certainly going to do this mod asap... on the issue of having to rev the engine to get the reg going, I noticed this with the original Bosch reg as well, I replaced it with a Monark regulator and the issue was history, Monark is also a German make... are these diodes freely available at electronics shops? Do you have a part no. or something?

Dankie... Thank you... Mr B... Mnr B

[Mr_B]

Sorry I see the component no. is in the linked article: 1N5402 Diode...

[HiluxJunkie]

The battery in White Fang is now over six years old and in spite of WF standing for long periods of time and having a Tracking device connected to it, the Benton keeps its battery optimally charged. Before I used the BX charger, the battery used to run flat after four days of standing, due to the Netstar draining the battery.


-F_D

Is it normal for the Tracker to drain the batt in 4 days ? Mine does it too. I thought there was a problem with it ? Is the system not passive when not used. My main batt constantly supply +- 800mA when the bakkie is switched of, this drains the battery in 3-4 days. Not sure what draws this amps. I want to locate the Tracker and disconnect it to see if the amps drop.

[Mr_B]

Got my diode(s)... these bugger are expensive... so I bought 5 of them...

Total bill: R1.20 x 5 = R 6.00... I spent more petrol driving to fetch the things!

Mr B

[Family_Dog]

Got my diode(s)... these bugger are expensive... so I bought 5 of them...

Total bill: R1.20 x 5 = R 6.00... I spent more petrol driving to fetch the things!

Mr B

You were definitely robbed.

Those diodes normally only cost about 30c each! I have just bought a stack of them for work.


-F_D

[Family_Dog]

The battery in White Fang is now over six years old and in spite of WF standing for long periods of time and having a Tracking device connected to it, the Benton keeps its battery optimally charged. Before I used the BX charger, the battery used to run flat after four days of standing, due to the Netstar draining the battery.


-F_D

Is it normal for the Tracker to drain the batt in 4 days ? Mine does it too. I thought there was a problem with it ? Is the system not passive when not used. My main batt constantly supply +- 800mA when the bakkie is switched of, this drains the battery in 3-4 days. Not sure what draws this amps. I want to locate the Tracker and disconnect it to see if the amps drop.

Simon, I have a Netstar unit fitted and the local Supplier exchanged it for me as he said it was faulty. What happens is that the NS (or similar) charges it's own 6V battery from the vehicle battery. If the 6v battery wears out, as they tend to do, then the unit carries on trying to charge it, hence the 800mA drain from the main system. This is what was happening to White Fang. A current draw of 800mA results in a loss of 19.2A per twenty four period, which gives you about 4 days on a 70A battery. The Netstar unit I have is fully automatic and I do not require to activate it, it does so by itself so probably does draw more current than the passive device.

The local Agent said that the Netstar should have switched itself off to prevent this happening, but it did not.

Shove a Benton BX-1 (or similar intelligent maintenance) charger in there and your troubles will be over. The charger automatically regulates the charge to the battery to keep it full at all times. Do not leave a normal charger permanently connected to the battery, you will cook it.

You might also want to check the Tracker unit battery, if fitted. It will be hidden somewhere in the vehicle.


-F_D

[Mr_B]

Morning...

Last night after rotating the tyres and unbolting/checking the centre bearing, I did the alt reg mod... used my old(er) Bosch regulator... and wala! 14.48 volts... instead of 13.6-13.8 volts... then I mod'd the Monarch Diesel reg as well as a spare... the first thing I noticed is that the Bosch reg needs a rev to 2000 rpm to start supplying charge... unlike the Monarch one...

Thanks guys, this is the kind of information that makes this forum so valuable, I would never have had a clue what to do without all the advise... in fact I was planning to buy a new gen Bosch alt just to fix this issue... @ R1000+ vs. R1.20...

Thanks,
Mr B

[cprinsloo]

Morning...

Last night after rotating the tyres and unbolting/checking the centre bearing, I did the alt reg mod... used my old(er) Bosch regulator... and wala! 14.48 volts... instead of 13.6-13.8 volts... then I mod'd the Monarch Diesel reg as well as a spare... the first thing I noticed is that the Bosch reg needs a rev to 2000 rpm to start supplying charge... unlike the Monarch one...

Thanks guys, this is the kind of information that makes this forum so valuable, I would never have had a clue what to do without all the advise... in fact I was planning to buy a new gen Bosch alt just to fix this issue... @ R1000+ vs. R1.20...

Thanks,
Mr B

Strange that the Bosch needs 2000 rpm to start charging, have never seen that before. Usually the alternator rotor (field) gets its field current through the charge indication globe from the ignition, maybe there is some higher resistance in the Bosch than the other reg, and with the addition of the globe resistance it's just too little field current to get the charging going.....

You can try 'n little bit higher wattage charge globe, but I wouldn't worry too much about it....

C

[Mr_B]

I'm not stressed, just happy to have 14.4V charge for R1.20... instead of forking out 1K+ and all the mods for a new gen alt... if it annoys me I'll just put to Monarch one back(also mod'd)...

Mr B

[Family_Dog]

I still say you were done in. That diode does not cost more than 30c... nannies!


-F_D

[Zandyl]

I still say you were done in. That diode does not cost more than 30c... nannies!

He was lucky, we have only one electronics supply store in town & they got stuck on R6.00 a diode or resistor

R15.00 for 555 timer

[Family_Dog]

I usually order these things from Mantech or Communica.Both stores have pretty useful web sites and the goods arrive within a couple of days.


-F_D

[Mr_B]

I usually order these things from Mantech or Communica.Both stores have pretty useful web sites and the goods arrive within a couple of days.


-F_D

Sorry I don't have the patience to wait a few days to save 90c...

[Hi-Hilux]

Ag nee man, as julle nie oor petrol pryse kla nie dan kla julle oor die prys van n diode. wat gaan aan? lol lol

[Family_Dog]

I usually order these things from Mantech or Communica.Both stores have pretty useful web sites and the goods arrive within a couple of days.


-F_D

Sorry I don't have the patience to wait a few days to save 90c...

Mr. B, this is more serious than I at first thought. I specifically checked the Invoice today in order to report the true facts to you.

Categorically speaking, the price we paid for a 1N5403 was in fact 19c per each. I see s class case emanating from the grossly over-charged price that you paid - 600% difference and it doesn't phase you!

Hmmm... maybe I should rethink the price of my VHF radios...


-F_D

[Mr_B]

I don't buy electronic components nearly as often as you... hence my ignorance... but next time I'll be much more careful and ask for discount...

Mr B

[Maddoglips]

Hey guys

I think you both got ripped off LOL

I just called yesterday to get prices of the 1N5402's and was told I can have the 3 1N5408's for Free :)

Sorry if I ruined your day :)

Good that people can still have abit of fun.

Zane

[ThysdJ]

So Bretton, how many of those expensive overpriced diode jobbies have you got left? Or should I swing by the Electronics shoppe this afternoon on my way home?

[Mr_B]

Gave Allan one to test... got 3 left... but I'm charging R2 each... got to try recoup my losses...

R u home this evening... got to get those stickers!

[ThysdJ]

Nope your luck is out, not home till late tonite... I am there on the weekend though.. but I guess you are going to be Hessekwassing..